The Truth About Enlightenment As I See It

[werlight]

17 hours ago, Nic said:

@NoOne

Once you would get to the monastery the only thing you'd think about is your home and family.

Your home and your family is your Zen monastery and exercises right here right now. You are waiting and looking for a bus that is already at the station. I believe life always gives exactly what you what you need to be in the now, there is nothing else to have. Once you become aware of it, you can choose be thankful for it! Changing surroundings is what the ego always want. Accepting and embrace all there is, is what you need to do to feel long lasting happiness, there is no other way to enlightenment!

There is nothing to wish for, this is it man! This is the perfect moment, nothing more, nothing less. The world, your life, your family, your baby and your wife are perfection, this moment is the absolute perfection.

Tell them you truly love them for what they are, that you are sorry to have been blinded by personal interests. Look at them, like you never looked at them before, make love to your wife like you never made love before and play with your daughter! Recognize the miracles in all this and be grateful you could finally see it at last! You have the ability to see it in every moment of your life. Make a mindful practice out of seeing the beautiful in the most challenging moments!

As you become aware of a negative emotion, see that this is your body's reaction to not accepting what is, in other words, you are having a negative thought. Change perspective, see your expectations and responsibility in the emotions you are experiencing. Be thankful as your body reacts the way it should, in that sense, that it is working perfectly, send your love and gratitude towards him and yourself. Be thankful for the Zen exercise that comes in your way. You are the light! 

Take care my friend and good luck in your monastery!

Wow @Nicthis was so beautiful. I agree with every word you said☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️

[Nic]

On 30 mars 2016 at 6:05 AM, Emerald Wilkins said:

Just think about how much you've had to explore to be able to understand the things that you now understand. Most people don't even see the benefit in this, and that's valid too. It can be unnerving that your wife doesn't get it, because it's very often a lonely, uncomfortable process.

Yes Emerald, I do agree. 

The problem I see with enlightenment , is that people, including myself, often take it like a political debate or a new philosophy. It's so easy to fall in that trap. Kind of "Please adhere to my view of the world so we can live in peace." But peace is here now, the chaos is nowhere else than in our own head.

And It is not easy to see that, as this is the key to access peace, this is the difficult part. There is nothing to change around you, just something to realize, the changes happen on their own, this is the nature of the universe. 

Wanting to prevent someone to do so called mistakes is nonsense. They have to live and feel the experience in order to desire a change in perspective. 

In order to influence people around you, in my eyes, the only thing you can do is by trying your best to be seen as an example in the eyes of others, so that they will see how happy you are by living in peace with what is. One day they might notice the contrast with themselves and have the desire to change. If not, that is just fine as well. 

Of course you can talk about enlightenment with everyone, but there you will notice (or not) how much you cling to your own beliefs, how much you want to be right about it, how much you want to change things and therefor see that you do not accept them. In that sense you can measure your level of awareness by your ability of letting go of the story about enlightenment. 

The only way that I see here to not cling to the story is to let go of the false sense of self. See myself as part of the universe, not someone or something separated or different from it . Sometimes it helps me to see myself as a planet lost in space, something  I would consider a part of the scenery I could observe (if I had a telescope...).

Peace is the acceptance of what is, not the desire to change what is.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Nic

[Nic]

 @werlight Tanks a lot!

[werlight]

56 minutes ago, Nic said:

Yes Emerald, I do agree. 

The problem I see with enlightenment , is that people, including myself, often take it like a political debate or a new philosophy. It's so easy to fall in that trap. Kind of "Please adhere to my view of the world so we can live in peace." But peace is here now, the chaos is nowhere else than in our own head.

And It is not easy to see that, as this is the key to access peace, this is the difficult part. There is nothing to change around you, just something to realize, the changes happen on their own, this is the nature of the universe. 

Wanting to prevent someone to do so called mistakes is nonsense. They have to live and feel the experience in order to desire a change in perspective. 

In order to influence people around you, in my eyes, the only thing you can do is by trying your best to walk as an example to others, so that they will see how happy you are by living in peace with what is. One day they might notice the contrast with themselves and have the desire to change. If not, that is just fine as well. 

Of course you can talk about enlightenment with everyone, but there you will notice (or not) how much you cling to your own beliefs, how much you want to be right about it, how much you want to change things and therefor see that you do not accept them. In that sense you can measure your level of awareness by your ability of letting go of the story about enlightenment. 

The only way that I see here to not cling to the story is to let go of the false sense of self. See myself as part of the universe, not someone or something evolving in it. Sometimes it helps me to see myself as a planet lost in space, something  I would consider a part of the scenery I could observe (if I had a telescope...).

Peace is the acceptance of what is, not the desire to change what is.

Reminds me of something I wrote a year ago.. 

"magic, is all around us

everything.. from the biggest star to the smallest particle of dust is a gift of love to us. Fulfillment and joy is in becoming aware of the absolute beauty and perfection of everything around us

life is a beautiful gift .. paradise is here and now, look inside yourself to find it”

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Nic said:

Yes Emerald, I do agree. 

The problem I see with enlightenment , is that people, including myself, often take it like a political debate or a new philosophy. It's so easy to fall in that trap. Kind of "Please adhere to my view of the world so we can live in peace." But peace is here now, the chaos is nowhere else than in our own head.

And It is not easy to see that, as this is the key to access peace, this is the difficult part. There is nothing to change around you, just something to realize, the changes happen on their own, this is the nature of the universe. 

Wanting to prevent someone to do so called mistakes is nonsense. They have to live and feel the experience in order to desire a change in perspective. 

In order to influence people around you, in my eyes, the only thing you can do is by trying your best to be seen as an example in the eyes of others, so that they will see how happy you are by living in peace with what is. One day they might notice the contrast with themselves and have the desire to change. If not, that is just fine as well. 

Of course you can talk about enlightenment with everyone, but there you will notice (or not) how much you cling to your own beliefs, how much you want to be right about it, how much you want to change things and therefor see that you do not accept them. In that sense you can measure your level of awareness by your ability of letting go of the story about enlightenment. 

The only way that I see here to not cling to the story is to let go of the false sense of self. See myself as part of the universe, not someone or something separated or different from it . Sometimes it helps me to see myself as a planet lost in space, something  I would consider a part of the scenery I could observe (if I had a telescope...).

Peace is the acceptance of what is, not the desire to change what is.

I fall into this trap from time to time, where I start thinking self-congratulatory thoughts about being "more conscious" or knowing something that others don't. It's funny because it's a very unconscious thing that I'm doing when these thoughts spring about.  The only way to influence people is to be a positive example... but even wanting to be is ego driven because there is a distinction being made between self and other.

[werlight]

Heeeyyy this is @Leo Gura  

"Build it ! .. and they will come"

the promise has been fulfilled my friend..

@Emerald Wilkins @Nic @cetus56 

[Leo Gura]

The ego is like a suicide bomber. As soon as it's threatened it wants to drag everyone else down with it by flailing around and creating all sorts of problems that really aren't problems.

It is possible to get enlightened while still keeping your family, if you want that.

[NoOne]

Thanks everyone for all of  your thoughts.  I appreciate all of these insights and I promise I'm not running away.  I'm working on building the life I want one tiny tiny step at a time.  At first I thought this was going to be really hard because I was trying to figure out how I was supposed to not exist and still take action.  I felt like my actions were bound to be wrong and that's why I suddenly felt the need for a spiritual mentor or something--i.e. joining a monastery.

But I've realized that I can take action from moment to moment as long as I don't try to forge "my" own path and get to far ahead of myself.  Like right now, I have this idea that because a lot of the pain I suffered came from my disappointment in the Christian church and how backwards it is.  I have this vague idea about doing something about that, and instead of deciding what I should do and laying out a detailed plan, I went to Friends University, here in Wichita, which is a very expensive and highly respected private liberal arts college that used to be part of the Quaker establishment, and I just had this sense that I wanted to talk to them about what I was going through and see what they had to say.  Yesterday I spent the whole day on campus and I talked to about four different people.  And everyone that I talked to listened very politely and each of them wound up ending the conversation with something like, "You should really talk to X."  Anyway, I got handed off and passed around between several different people and even got a tour of the campus.  I kind of love the idea of being an academic.  But my ideas don't mean anything if I can't apply them to observable results within my own life, so as fascinated as I am with re-reading ancient religious texts and philosophy books with this new perspective, those things don't help me get stuff done.

[Nic]

38 minutes ago, NoOne said:

I kind of love the idea of being an academic.  But my ideas don't mean anything if I can't apply them to observable results within my own life, so as fascinated as I am with re-reading ancient religious texts and philosophy books with this new perspective, those things don't help me get stuff done.

The idea of being happy no matter what happens is your goal, isn't it? In my view, this should be considered as the priority. You noticed already that it is easy to get confused with gaining information and gaining experience. So what is your plan of action?

[NoOne]

3 hours ago, Nic said:

The idea of being happy no matter what happens is your goal, isn't it? In my view, this should be considered as the priority. You noticed already that it is easy to get confused with gaining information and gaining experience. So what is your plan of action?

I don't have a plan of action.  I'm keeping my mind open to possibilities.  I don't want to set myself up for failure so I am living moment to moment so that reality's plans for me can come to fruition,  BUT yesterday I spent the day at the university, and last night I submitted an application for admission/scholarship application for the "Christian Spiritual Formation" program, which is a new spiritual program the university has created to try to broaden the minds of future Christian leaders and get them grounded in some core rational values (If most of humanity is going to exist in a state of spiritual delusion, shouldn't they at least be given some values to live by that will help reduce suffering?  Is that what the man called Jesus chose to do with his life?  To use his enlightened insights to give sleeping people some compassionate values to live by?  Is it crazy to say that I can only imagine someone who was enlightened in the way that I have come to experience enlightenment who could walk the path of Jesus to its end. The program is kind of calling to me, not because I ever envisioned myself a future Christian leader, but don't you think that we who are awake could use some people in these institutions to sort of balance out some of the insanity of groups like Westboro Baptist Church and maybe even help lead people on to true spirituality that goes beyond these misinterpreted traditions?  And maybe people seeking true spiritual enlightenment should NOT be taught by professors who have made themselves blind studying dogma and tradition and should instead be taught by people who have experienced true enlightenment.  And dare I say that maybe some of those traditions and beliefs have something to teach me too?  I mean, not that I'm going to decide tomorrow that Jesus was a man-god and the Bible is infallible or anything like that, but maybe Jesus was enlightened and he knew a thing or two that I might be able to learn from now that I have this new perspective.  Maybe I need to study his reported words and deeds for hints as to how to best live the enlightened life.  Does doing that make me a Christian?  Does studying Buddhism make me a Buddhist?  These are all just labels, but the institutions of at least the Christian church (and I imagine even in the great Eastern traditions) have become so filled with people who do not really know the truth that it's no wonder they are so far off course from what were probably originally attempts by other enlightened men to help rational man either reach enlightenment or at least live by a set of values that makes sense.  In any event, all of these ideas don't give me a plan of action and I don't want to take just any plan of action that comes along, I want to see what doors the universe will open for me.  But I have a good sense of what I would LIKE to do with my life, in one form or another.

[Nic]

@NoOne

My friend, you are living in fear, you are lost in thought, I could answer all your questions, and we would philosophy all day and night about it all. I would come with all my rational answers and all, my whatever cool and diplomatic, scientific answers which you would agree or not... in the end, the work we are doing here is questioning at first the question-answering process, see that it makes no sense at all! In the end we try our best to stop the question-answering process. This is the goal. What happens from there is acceptance, anything is possible.

You are dividing the world in good and bad... In this I see that none of the above as a valid question. You are trapped in your wheel. You need to step out of the wheel and not ask why should I step out of the wheel as that would make you climb right back in it.

I take for only example : What shall I do with my life? The sense of the question is not valid. If you are satisfied with an answer, it doesn't mean that it will be true or right... First you will only see a sense that your rational part of your mind will satisfy itself with. You will be happy to do good around you... but there is not such a thing as good and bad... and there is not such a thing as a failure. Later in your life you'll change your mind about your ideas of the world and so on...  We cannot understand all what is implied in that question. Once we believe we found an answer, we just find another question.

We need to embrace life as it unfold in front of us. You only seem to have control over it. Surrender, and you will live your life to its fullest potential, find a sense in that matter, no more living by fear and start going into action without being afraid of the outcome. 

You are on a journey, wherever you are right now is absolutely fine, wherever you were yesterday and will be tomorrow as well. You want to be christian teacher of some sort, do it, you want to be a fireman, do it, you want to be a doctor, do it, you want to be happy, do it... don't ask yourself questions, (like what happens if I fail?) The question-answering process has to stop. The instructions are here to take, whatever the outcome, everything will be as they are... simply fine.

Clinging to what make us feel good make us fear all the time we could feel bad. Embrace the pain without labeling it. Look at Leo's video, what to do with strong emotions...

Take care NoOne and enjoy the journey.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Nic

[NoOne]

8 hours ago, Nic said:

@NoOne

My friend, you are living in fear, you are lost in thought, I could answer all your questions, and we would philosophy all day and night about it all. I would come with all my rational answers and all, my whatever cool and diplomatic, scientific answers which you would agree or not... in the end, the work we are doing here is questioning at first the question-answering process, see that it makes no sense at all! In the end we try our best to stop the question-answering process. This is the goal. What happens from there is acceptance, anything is possible.

You are dividing the world in good and bad... In this I see that none of the above as a valid question. You are trapped in your wheel. You need to step out of the wheel and not ask why should I step out of the wheel as that would make you climb right back in it.

I take for only example : What shall I do with my life? The sense of the question is not valid. If you are satisfied with an answer, it doesn't mean that it will be true or right... First you will only see a sense that your rational part of your mind will satisfy itself with. You will be happy to do good around you... but there is not such a thing as good and bad... and there is not such a thing as a failure. Later in your life you'll change your mind about your ideas of the world and so on...  We cannot understand all what is implied in that question. Once we believe we found an answer, we just find another question.

We need to embrace life as it unfold in front of us. You only seem to have control over it. Surrender, and you will live your life to its fullest potential, find a sense in that matter, no more living by fear and start going into action without being afraid of the outcome. 

You are on a journey, wherever you are right now is absolutely fine, wherever you were yesterday and will be tomorrow as well. You want to be christian teacher of some sort, do it, you want to be a fireman, do it, you want to be a doctor, do it, you want to be happy, do it... don't ask yourself questions, (like what happens if I fail?) The question-answering process has to stop. The instructions are here to take, whatever the outcome, everything will be as they are... simply fine.

Clinging to what make us feel good make us fear all the time we could feel bad. Embrace the pain without labeling it. Look at Leo's video, what to do with strong emotions...

Take care NoOne and enjoy the journey.

In fairness, the question you asked me was what is my plan of action.  And my first and most true response is that I don't have one.  I am living completely in the moment.  I am just existing and trying to follow my instincts to discover how I can exist among rational minds and perhaps help ease suffering.   The suffering of not BEing, of being trapped by our minds is too great.  My bias toward the emotional freedom of living in the moment and not allowing our emotions to consume us leads me to believe that religious dogma is a particularly destructive force that causes men to believe they have all of the answers.  It was the single most powerful concept that kept what I considered me from experiencing true reality.  And while I can see that this dogma is helpful to some beings and that they are where they are in their search, I also cannot help wondering if we cannot build more bridges from the rational world to the experience of I am.  I think perhaps I come across as judgmental of rational people, and this is causing harm to my relationships.  I need to find a way to attempt to communicate this truth of being and help alleviate suffering.  I don't profess to know what shape that will take, but that is what my instincts are leading me to do.

[Nic]

31 minutes ago, NoOne said:

 And while I can see that this dogma is helpful to some beings and that they are where they are in their search, I also cannot help wondering if we cannot build more bridges from the rational world to the experience of I am.  I think perhaps I come across as judgmental of rational people, and this is causing harm to my relationships.  I need to find a way to attempt to communicate this truth of being and help alleviate suffering.  I don't profess to know what shape that will take, but that is what my instincts are leading me to do.

Ok man! The best link between the rational world and the I Am, I found in Leo's content, in addition to the course of my spiritual master that I took long time ago. As I see it from where I Am, it seems that your lack of action is due to too much thinking... But only you can tell! Remember that whatever you do right now, it's OK!

I hope you'll find your way soon!

Take care!

Edited April 1, 2016 by Nic

[NoOne]

33 minutes ago, Nic said:

Ok man! The best link between the rational world and the I Am, I found in Leo's content, in addition to the course of my spiritual master that I took long time ago. As I see it from where I Am, it seems that your lack of action is due to too much thinking... But only you can tell! Remember that whatever you do right now, it's OK!

I hope you'll find your way soon!

Take care!

Thank you.  I'm doing a lot of thinking, but I am also taking action--going to the university, talking to other spiritual leaders, communicating here.  These are all actions which I anticipate will illuminate a path for me.  Other actions I attempt to take right now are frustrated by reality.  I went to my office yesterday to do some work on my online tea business and the power was out and the landlord says the sewer line running under my part of the building has collapsed and needs to be dug up and repaired.  If I was relying on my business to fulfill me at this point, that would be extremely frustrating, but I'm not really worried about it at the moment.  I know I'll find my way.  But thank you for your concern.  It is true that too much thinking and not enough action tends to lead to trouble, but I consider right now that interacting on this forum and talking to people at the university about my changing perspective of reality is not just thinking, but acting; I can experience an intellectual conversation without letting my ego fall into the trap of self-importance.  I benefit from it by growing my self-awareness and expanding my egoic understanding of reality.  It's an intense challenge and it's own reward.  At the same time, I feel it is of benefit for me to share these experiences with others who are just starting to explore self-awareness.  Even if the self ultimately does not exist, i know that is something I will have to experience to accept.  I cannot take another persons' word for it.  But experience is meaningless without context, so this ego thing is useful in that sense.  it is slippery and deceitful, but useful.

[Nic]

@NoOne I agree with you but I also disagree,

Just before you loose yourself in argumentation and questioning about the world in the forum and in university, in a previous post I reminded you about the questioning-answering process. This is basically what is comes down to... for ME! The mother of all problems. I believe we have all the same problem, I might be wrong about it, but for me, this is it. If for you taking action is running in a wheel, so shall be it... it's fine! 

In that sense, this questioning-answering process is taking action, and probably, on the path to awareness, everybody has to walk the walk before he gets to notice it. Intellectual conversations, sure have their meaning if you give them one...

I asked myself a hell lot of questions before I came to this conclusion, and yes I found my final answer that there is no question to ask. I don't trust the question, I don't trust the voice I hear anymore or try my best not to. So yes, I had to ask myself so many questions to find the final answer.
 

It's not only with the world that we have to have the "let it be" approach, but also the chatting in our heads. Have as much philosophical conversation as you want, just don't cling to one that is talking in your head. In that sense, reason could very easily be confused with what is good for you. It'll find the best arguments for that, it has them already! I'm having so many philosophical debate myself, it's not possible to avoid that, and I enjoy those moments. If those debates are used as a tool to let go of the self, then fine, but you'll notice in all honesty that it is rarely the case. They bring a lot of mind chatter with them. In my head mind chatter brings more mind chatter. Silence, being mindful, walking in nature, playing an instrument, helped me to be centered, being creative and from those moments came not only peace but also so called "solutions" out of nowhere. Not debate, not talking about my new views of the world and asking myself questions.

I tell you what is written on my wall since more than 2 years, these are the most important words I've ever come across in a book for my mental state, do what you want with it, but writing them on my wall helped me to solve every problem I had since... In that sense I believe that the whole subject about enlightenment could be resumed in a few words:

"Things don't change when they are understood. Understanding reinforces the intellect (the ego). The seeker has to make room to the meditative state."

I just added "Let go" to that.

I really encourage you and anyone else to not let those words that goes to the core of the problem to get forgotten in a Forum. 

Have a nice one NoOne and thank you for the nice debate! 

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Nic

[NoOne]

@Nic Thank YOU for your input.  I think we're on the same page here.  I don't think there is any way for us to rationally experience God or reality or whathaveyou.  It is something we have to let go of our need to rationalize and experience it; that's the only way to commune with God, if you will.  It's too complex for us to understand, but if we can quiet our minds and open our senses, we can experience it.  But there are people who would love to find this who are stuck in their mind on religious dogma or philosophical constructs, and they are genuinely seeking the truth, and perhaps they THINK have found it in some dogma or institution like the Christian Church, and the men and women who are training these young people and maybe some spiritual leaders in society as well seem to have two choices:  either help those who are looking to them for guidance find a place of true experience, or at the very least if they cannot let go of their ego, give them a less destructive path to follow, like perhaps following the actual teachings and trying to emulate the actions of people who have been enlightened, like Christ.  I'm sure that's not an easy path, to have one foot in each paradigm, but it seems like a helpful place to be.  I know my experience with reality is new right now, but this is not the first time I have experienced communion with reality.  It's just that I forgot what it was.