The egg experiment

[Emanyalpsid]

@Matt8800 Read the whole topic and see how here-now did the experiment.

The only way to test if consciousness creates the brain or the other way around, is to keep hitting someone on his head while the energy in the brain is measured. If he loses his consciousness and there is still energy in the brain, the brain prevails. If he loses the energy in his brain but sustains consciousness, consciousness prevails. Who wants to volunteer? As you are all so convinced that it is consciousness who creates the brain you can do without right? But I guess no one really want to find out. Are you scared? 

I already know who wins. I was in a coma for 3 weeks, after an head accident I got a cerebral hemorrhage. Some parts in my brain did not get glucose and oxygen to sustain their processes. I became unconscious, but there was still energy in my brain. Therefore I know from experience that consciousness is of dependent origin. Have you experienced this? Or do you just believe consciousness created the brain?

You all just got truly convinced, through your already adopted believes in infinite consciousness, from the moment you did 5-Meo-DMT (or any other psychedelic) and the brain could not process the input from the senses anymore, distorting your perception of reality. After this you thought, oh reality is an illusion, everything is created through my consciousness. Of course your perception of reality is created through your consciousness. But you only believe that reality itself is also. After the effects of 5-Meo-DMT wore off, of course your ego has died and does not return, so you keep an non-dual perception, but you regained normal consciousness as the normal balance of neurotransmitters in the brain restored.

The sad thing is that I see Leo capable of seeing through his illusion, but he has already adopted so many followers who confirm his believe by believing themselves. So Leo does not reflect upon himself anymore. Thinking he saw everything, while he just saw half of it.

@Leo Gura please read this topic, but you will probably keep ignoring me and reality.

My attempts are hopeless. You are sadly all just sheeps following the shepherd. Also, it doesn't matter, if you guys are happy and can live for yourself by yourself that's fine. Not needing financial support from others who got their shit together and work to support you. Self-inquiry is egoistic by nature, especially if you don't get anywhere and are just a burden to others.

Therefore I say goodbye.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[abrakamowse]

46 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

I became unconscious, but there was still energy in my brain

How do you know that? Was it in your direct experience?

Admit that you don't know anything. We all have belief, you have a belief that consciousness arises from matter. I have the belief that is matter which arises from consciousness. I don't want to convince of my point of view, but at least be open to other possibilities.

No one knows if matter creates consciousness, and you don't know either.

Edited September 29, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Emanyalpsid]

26 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

How do you know that? Was it in your direct experience?

I was unconscious, therefore I had no experience. 

Quote

Admit that you don't know anything. We all have belief, you have a belief that consciousness arises from matter. I have the belief that is matter which arises from consciousness. I don't want to convince of my point of view, but at least be open to other possibilities.

We don't know if matter creates consciousness, and you don't know either.

Yeah the point is; we create our own reality, whether you call it reality or consciousness doesn't matter. But this reality or consciousness is bounded. To get something, most of us call an egg, in something, which most of us call a hand, you need something, a freaking chicken, to lay the egg. You can call it appearances or whatever the fuck you want to call it, doesn't matter.

"It" is bounded, how is it bounded? That is what science tries to figure out.

How did "it" came to be? Well apparently it is of dependent origin. You need an appearance of matter and gravity to "see" and "feel" the egg. You also need an appearance of space and time for the egg to be somewhere to be perceived. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[abrakamowse]

How matters creates consciousness? How can something intelligent came out from something that has no intelligence, and be "dependent" on it (matter)? Is it (intelligence) created randomly?

Quantum mechanics has just proven that what we think is matter is nothing in reality.

What do you think about that?

Edited September 29, 2018 by abrakamowse
Grammar

[Matt8800]

45 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

@Matt8800 Read the whole topic and see how here-now did the experiment.

The only way to test if consciousness creates the brain or the other way around, is to keep hitting someone on his head while the energy in the brain is measured. If he loses his consciousness and there is still energy in the brain, the brain prevails. If he loses the energy in his brain but sustains consciousness, consciousness prevails. Who wants to volunteer? As you are all so convinced that it is consciousness who creates the brain you can do without right? But I guess no one really want to find out. Are you scared? 

I already know who wins. I was in a coma for 3 weeks, after an head accident I got a cerebral hemorrhage. Some parts in my brain did not get glucose and oxygen to sustain their processes. I became unconscious, but there was still energy in my brain. Therefore I know from experience that consciousness is of dependent origin. Have you experienced this? Or do you just believe consciousness created the brain?

You all just got truly convinced, through your already adopted believes in infinite consciousness, from the moment you did 5-Meo-DMT (or any other psychedelic) and the brain could not process the input from the senses anymore, distorting your perception of reality. After this you thought, oh reality is an illusion, everything is created through my consciousness. Of course your perception of reality is created through your consciousness. But you only believe that reality itself is also. After the effects of 5-Meo-DMT wore off, of course your ego has died and does not return, so you keep an non-dual perception, but you regained normal consciousness as the normal balance of neurotransmitters in the brain restored.

The sad thing is that I see Leo capable of seeing through his illusion, but he has already adopted so many followers who confirm his believe by believing themselves. So Leo does not reflect upon himself anymore. Thinking he saw everything, while he just saw half of it.

 

@Emanyalpsid

Saying you can measure the "energy" in ones head to quantify consciousness is like saying you can study the electricity powering a TV to quantify the signal the TV receives.

If you unplug the TV, does the TV signal still exist? Your argument that you cannot remember being conscious during a coma, therefore consciousness no longer existed, is equating memory with consciousness and is attempting to give consciousness attributes with no foundation to support the claim. 

I understand that your perspective makes sense in terms of dualism. Investigate dualism further and you'll see it collapses.

[Emanyalpsid]

10 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@Emanyalpsid

Saying you can measure the "energy" in ones head to quantify consciousness is like saying you can study the electricity powering a TV to quantify the signal the TV receives.

If you unplug the TV, does the TV signal still exist? Your argument that you cannot remember being conscious during a coma, therefore consciousness no longer existed, is equating memory with consciousness and is attempting to give consciousness attributes with no foundation to support the claim. 

I understand that your perspective makes sense in terms of dualism. Investigate dualism further and you'll see it collapses.

Dude, you're using a metaphor, which also makes no sense, to sustain your believe. I never said I remembered. I said I had no experience until I became conscious again 3 weeks later. This is classical defending a believe system. Read this website; www.foundationsofhumanlife.com

And find out that I know all about dualism and non-dualism. But it requires you to confront yourself instead of just believing. That is a lot harder.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

16 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

How matters creates consciousness? How can something intelligent came out from something that has no intelligence, and be "dependent" on it (matter)? Is it (intelligence) created randomly?

Quantum mechanics has just proven that what we think is matter is nothing in reality.

What do you think about that?

Have you read the website www.foundationsofhumanlife.com three times and reflected upon it?

Qm has not proven anything yet, so don't try to outsmart me. And the theory does not deny matter.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

But wait I just thought something. Maybe it was just infinite consciousness which made me only experience unconsciousness, and I was not unconscious at all but just had no appearances. Therefore I only experienced nothing, while in fact it was just me experiencing nothing and infinite consciousness was still there.

[abrakamowse]

14 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Have you read the website www.foundationsofhumanlife.com three times and reflected upon it?

Yes, I have... that website talks about the ego from the body point of view. It tries to explain how you act and react when you feel you  are bounded into a body, into a bag of skin. The consciousness that needs a reality to exist, is the consciousness that is focused in your experience, that creates and idea of you. That consciousness is bound, but not the whole consciousness that pervades everything and is in everything. 

The only way for you to see that is through a kind of spiritual experience. As you had a coma experience, I had an experience where I saw that. 

I saw how consciousness is not something that "I have", is the other way around, my body is inside consciousness.

21 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Qm has not proven anything yet, so don't try to outsmart me. And the theory does not deny matter.

QM has destroyed the concept of matter. Of course now there's some scientific who will deny that, but if you read about the pioneers of Quantum Mechanics (Plank, Schrödinger, Niels Bohr, etc) you will see that. Of course "society" won't accept those experiments and their conclusions, because is a hit to hard for the ego to accept. Reality is too harsh for the ego to see it.

This is what Niels Bohr said about matter:

Quote

 

Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.

Niels Bohr

 

 

[abrakamowse]

11 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Therefore I only experienced nothing, while in fact it was just me experiencing nothing and infinite consciousness was still there.

You are going somewhere now. Consciousness is aware of the lack of experience. Awareness (consciousness) is always present even when there's no experience. That consciousness is the real "you", not the limited ego that you think you are.

Consciousness is aware of nothing happening. Think about deep sleep.

[Emanyalpsid]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

You are going somewhere now. Consciousness is aware of the lack of experience. Awareness (consciousness) is always present even when there's no experience. That consciousness is the real "you", not the limited ego that you think you are.

Consciousness is aware of nothing happening. Think about deep sleep.

Lol I just made that up, but thanks that you bit. Consciousness is aware of the lack of experience? Lol Consciousness is experience. For what are you conscious of if you don't perceive or experience anything? Infinite consciousness? And how are you conscious of infinite consciousness? 

Watch this to understand what qm is and where they are in their research;

https://youtu.be/n984nd55BqQ

 

[abrakamowse]

1 minute ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Lol Consciousness is experience.

Consciousness transcends experience. How do you know that you did not experience anything during a coma?

You just know that there was no experience while you were in a coma. You were aware of that fact, right?

If you were not aware of it, you wouldn't say that during the coma you didn't experience anything. Experience is experience, awareness is awareness.

I had this very discussion with a supposed "teacher" of non-duality. You have to equal consciousness to experience, because you think that something that transcends experience cannot be known. That's wrong. You know when you have no experiences at all, like when you are in deep sleep.

[Emanyalpsid]

Consciousness transcends experience? What do you even mean by that? If I write experience I mean every kind of experience. Do you mean consciousness supersedes experience?

[abrakamowse]

Just now, Emanyalpsid said:

Consciousness transcends experience? What do you even mean by that? If I write experience I mean every kind of experience. Do you mean consciousness supersedes experience?

Were you conscious of nothing happening when you were in a coma? You are aware that nothing is happening when you are in deep sleep, aren't you?

[Emanyalpsid]

2 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Were you conscious of nothing happening when you were in a coma? You are aware that nothing is happening when you are in deep sleep, aren't you?

No I was unconscious. In my deep sleep I am also unconscious.

[abrakamowse]

3 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

No I was unconscious. In my deep sleep I am also unconscious.

So, you were aware that you were unconscious. Do you see that? You are awareness.

[Matt8800]

57 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Dude, you're using a metaphor, which also makes no sense, to sustain your believe. I never said I remembered. I said I had no experience until I became conscious again 3 weeks later. This is classical defending a believe system. Read this website; www.foundationsofhumanlife.com

And find out that I know all about dualism and non-dualism. But it requires you to confront yourself instead of just believing. That is a lot harder.

@Emanyalpsid You are assuming I dont understand your perspective so you keep repeating your arguments. I understand your perspective very well since it was my perspective for 46 years.

You are insistent that anyone that doesnt agree with you is simply forming beliefs based on what they are told. That claim, like many of the others you make, cannot be substantiated. You do not know how I formed my beliefs (because you cannot know) yet it is still a belief you hold in your mind.

You are drawing your conclusions because they reconcile with the foundational assumptions you have about how the world works. Those assumptions, which I used to have, I found to be incorrect. Until you look at those assumptions more carefully, your conclusions will always be the same and you will view anyone that disagrees as being incorrect.

[Emanyalpsid]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

So, you were aware that you were unconscious. Do you see that? You are awareness.

Yeah only after I regained consciousness again. I wish I had free will so I could stop responding to this nonsense.

[Matt8800]

13 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

No I was unconscious. In my deep sleep I am also unconscious.

@Emanyalpsid

"Who" is unconscious? Please define what you mean by "I" very carefully. Dont just gloss over it like it is an obvious assumption that needs no substantiation. 

When you are in a deep sleep, sometimes you remember a dream...sometimes you dont. You keep equating memory with consciousness by assuming if there is no memory, consciousness ceases to exist. This is built on the foundational assumption/belief that consciousness is created by the physical brain. It is also built upon belief that every distinct creation of an illusory self is associated with a distinct and separate consciousness. If you could prove that was true, I would believe you

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Matt8800

[abrakamowse]

5 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Yeah only after I regained consciousness again.

If you didn't have consciousness. How did you body continue breathing, blood circulating, all the functions were working... how this happens if the consciousness is not there? The brain creates consciousness? What is that consciousness that continues operating in your body when you are in a coma or deep sleep? Is the brain that continues working while consciousness has gone? Where has it go? Maybe consciousness went shopping while you were asleep and then it came back, so you "regained it".

Edited September 29, 2018 by abrakamowse
grammatical error