"Coming out" as non-religious. Any advice about my situation?

[lmfao]

Alright so today I've moved out from my parents (for university). I'm typing so as to get me thoughts and feelings to flow out as I'm thinking about how to manage my relationship with my family. My family is muslim and they do not know that I am not muslim and so I'm wondering what to do about my lifestyle since I wont care about whether I eat halal meat or not, care if I get a girlfriend or sleep around, care if I drink alcohol and etc. I rely on my parents for financial support, but I still think that I should soon tell me parents im not Muslim (and hence I'll be living whatever lifestyle I want). Since my dad is more educated and open minded I'll tell him first. And as far as my mum is concerned, it's probably too early to tell her anything. She is an absolute lost cause in trying to negotiate any sort of compromise or alternative viewpoint. 

So lets suppose I go through with telling my family that I'm not religious (with the exception of my mother), the only thing I have to consider is what my father will permit me to spend his money on. He may say to me "Do what you want but don't spend my money on alcohol" and/or "don't spend my money on unhalal meat, dont spend my money on pork". And what I wonder is, if I am put in this situation , what am I to do or say? Since I want to live my live with freedom, I shouldn't accept compromise even if it should mean that I financially struggle. On the other hand I want to put forward the fact that I am thankful for the support hes given me and that I am willing to maintain as close a relationship to the degree that he's willing to accept.  I live in England, a welfare state at the end of the day and in the worst case scenario I accumulate some debt I have to pay off once I start working.

Secondarily I worry about how my relationship with my family will change, but I'll have to accept any changes that come my way. Life is a game at the end of the day.

[Leo Gura]

If they are paying your bills, it might be wise to just accept some of those simple compromises like not buying pork or alcohol.

Once you are paying for yourself you can buy whatever you want.

Freedom has to be earned.

You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation.

If you are pursuing nonduality, the irony is that you are more Muslim than they are. But don't tell them that

[Solace]

@Leo Gura That's what I'd do. 

It will help you also surrender your resistance to that religion, and your parents ideology; and develop acceptance of who they are even if it has hurt you. And you will find that your willingness to compromise and respect who they are will make them more respectful and accepting to you because you are connecting on a deeper level, and they will see the same kindness in you that they have the potential of giving. We are all hurt in our childhoods one way or another, even children growing up in the most ideal situations need to face the pain of loss. It's a great time to face some of this with compromise, which is really a win-win.

Maybe I'm being idealistic, but bringing more love is always win-win.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Solace

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura indeed it may be wise for me to accept compromise for financial reasons. Strategic thinking is needed here. 

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation.

I'm into meditation so I won't be a 100% heretic. I won't be good at communicating to them the idea that "Allah" can be synonymous non-duality and that I believe everyone is God, but good suggestion lol. I don't know much about sufism, seems interesting from what I've heard. 

@Solace

20 minutes ago, Solace said:

@Leo Gura That's what I'd do. 

It will help you also surrender your resistance to that religion, and your parents ideology; and develop acceptance of who they are even if it has hurt you. And you will find that your willingness to compromise and respect who they are will make them more respectful and accepting to you because you are connecting on a deeper level, and they will see the same kindness in you that they have the potential of giving. We are all hurt in our childhoods one way or another, even children growing up in the most ideal situations need to face the pain of loss. It's a great time to face some of this with compromise, which is really a win-win.

Maybe I'm being idealistic, but bringing more love is always win-win.

You're right. I think I've pretty much come to terms with accepting who they are as people with their beliefs, just a shame I know they'll believe in lies until their death. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by lmfao

[Brittany]

1 hour ago, lmfao said:

Alright so today I've moved out from my parents (for university). I'm typing so as to get me thoughts and feelings to flow out as I'm thinking about how to manage my relationship with my family. My family is muslim and they do not know that I am not muslim and so I'm wondering what to do about my lifestyle since I wont care about whether I eat halal meat or not, care if I get a girlfriend or sleep around, care if I drink alcohol and etc. I rely on my parents for financial support, but I still think that I should soon tell me parents im not Muslim (and hence I'll be living whatever lifestyle I want). Since my dad is more educated and open minded I'll tell him first. And as far as my mum is concerned, it's probably too early to tell her anything. She is an absolute lost cause in trying to negotiate any sort of compromise or alternative viewpoint. 

I have never told my parents that "I am not a Christian".  

They would kill me. Like damn me to hell. No kidding.

And I haven't told them for ..... 6 years? 

And we are cool. My lifestyle is barely any different since I am boring as hell. haha They have no reason to ask.

I talk about philosophy with them and speak about Christianity with them but more "mystically". I "point them to the moon" if that makes sense. The Bible has a ton of non dual concepts. And most of our conversations about the Bible are on those non-dual topics. It's something we still have in common.

And when I moved out, they only see me during holidays. So it's not something I think about. Our lives are extremely separate now.

It's optional to come out.

But if it will make you feel better to come out, then do it.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Brittany

[Solace]

@lmfao I say this too, because of a similar situation of being spiritual while living with a family who thinks materially, and is very hurt on the inside (like we all are). I accept them, and this comes naturally when you accept yourself; and and this too happens when you live from your Heart centre. I see every moment as an equal opportunity to grow through dropping resistance to the now through Love. Before that, seeing that we all shared pain no matter what mask we use to hide from it whether it be the Islamic religion, or spirituality; allowed some form of deeper connection, there is a subtle shift in every interaction when you acknowledge this shared experience of suffering. A dimension of stillness, and presence is added.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Solace

[lmfao]

@Brittany your situation might be different to mine because most Christians are not fundamentalist and they can eat whatever they want, many have premarital sex, don't have to recite arabic 5 times a day and etc. I might be wrong in saying that when considering your particular situation, but that aside it seems like your situation is similar to mine in the sense that your family obviously take religion seriously and would freak out if you told them. 

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

And when I moved out, they only see me during holidays. So it's not something I think about. Our lives are extremely separate now.

It's optional to come out.

But if it will make you feel better to come out, then do it.

Yeah I think I will have to come out just because of how much of a big lifestyle commitment Islam is versus the lifestyle commitment most Christians make. 

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

I talk about philosophy with them and speak about Christianity with them but more "mystically". I "point them to the moon" if that makes sense. The Bible has a ton of non dual concepts. And most of our conversations about the Bible are on those non-dual topics. It's something we still have in common.

I see no way to point to non-dual ideas. The only accepted interpretation for many Muslims is a literal one. Many Muslims see it as complete heresy to say that there isn't a single entity who is above is who is ruling us. This image of God is one where God is separate from us. The most I do is just recommend meditation to them. 

Random thought, although altruism and ethical behaviour in religion may be linked at its roots to non-dual experiences most people take up altruism for dogmatic reasons. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by lmfao

[Baotrader]

I don't know why those religions always van people from drinking alcohol and beer. Bullshit. Drink it as much as you want. When you're so disgusted with it yourself you'll automatically drop it. That's how it works

[kieranperez]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If they are paying your bills, it might be wise to just accept some of those simple compromises like not buying pork or alcohol.

Once you are paying for yourself you can buy whatever you want.

Freedom has to be earned.

You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation.

If you are pursuing nonduality, the irony is that you are more Muslim than they are. But don't tell them that

That tactic to me is what I’ve been trying to employ in a certain way but I have a hard time not being honest and authentic with my family (my dad whose a Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson fanatic but doesn’t “buy” into spirtual “woo woo” stuff) and this caused a lot of turmoil in me because I thought the whole principle of honesty was to be authentic and radically honest and to stop hiding and manipulating my own selfish agenda.

Edited September 23, 2018 by kieranperez

[Key Elements]

If they are dogmatic and you feel that you're at a risk of being disowned by them, or you know they don't accept that at all, there is no need to tell them. It will just cause more trouble for you, esp when you're not independent from them yet. You run the risk of them cutting you off completely. To me, it sounds like the next step is to find your interests and become independent from them.

Even if you do become independent from them, you probably don't want to tell them. What's the use if they don't accept and stuck in that mindset?

(Btw, just wanted to add: If you decide to go off on your own, make sure you understand the society and culture that you're living in before making any major decisions. Most ppl have not fully transended culture.)

[Virgo]

Leo nailed it with the answer! I was trying to say somehow the same. I moved from Albania, to the US, and my best friends were Muslims. Not only they call themselves muslims, but they practice it in a daily basis, pray and everything you just mentioned. To summarize it Saudi Arabia type Muslims. But they were my best friends, even though far they still are. I never went into any conflict with them, and I learned a lot about their religion, that In somepoint I was even trying to correct them or motivate them ? So not drinking and eating pork yeh it’s not a bad thing, you can learn a lot from every religion. If you don’t wanna be a Muslim that’s really fine, if I was you I would not try to fight it with my family, and cultivate religion morals whitch I bet you already have, and even try to explain them some religious staff whitch I find useful for building a better character. ?

[lmfao]

@Key Elements

21 hours ago, Key Elements said:

If they are dogmatic and you feel that you're at a risk of being disowned by them, or you know they don't accept that at all, there is no need to tell them. It will just cause more trouble for you, esp when you're not independent from them yet. You run the risk of them cutting you off completely. To me, it sounds like the next step is to find your interests and become independent from them.

Amen

21 hours ago, Key Elements said:

Even if you do become independent from them, you probably don't want to tell them. What's the use if they don't accept and stuck in that mindset?

Supposing I'm independent, I would tell them the truth of things because that's how things should be I think. I'm gonna live my life how I want at the end of the day and so if they don't accept they don't accept (sigh). 

I meant to quote you again @Key Elements but I clicked on the wrong comment. 

21 hours ago, Virgo said:

(Btw, just wanted to add: If you decide to go off on your own, make sure you understand the society and culture that you're living in before making any major decisions. Most ppl have not fully transended culture.)

Yes. 

[Key Elements]

2 hours ago, lmfao said:

Supposing I'm independent, I would tell them the truth of things because that's how things should be I think. I'm gonna live my life how I want at the end of the day and so if they don't accept they don't accept (sigh). 

See, if you want to tell them when you're completely independent from them, that's your choice. Just think of how they will react and the consequences. You know your family the best. Just be aware of that.

I don't know if it's possible to introduce new ideas to them slowly once you're independent. For example, once you've reached a point in your life where you could start your own business (startup/LP), and then you completely quit your job and you're financially free. Can you tell them this after you do this? That's so much more basic and easier to tell them than talking about "all religions have truth in them." Will they even understand this part? To me, this is passing through stage orange in real life. Green is if your business (startup/LP) doesn't destroy the environment and takes environment into consideration. Beyond that, you could express your spiritual path in your business (startup/LP). That will probably put your work into Tier 2. Maybe they'll notice instead of you saying it. But then, it's your choice. I always thought that showing someone is different from telling someone the whole thing at once. Those who are closed-minded get shocked for no reason, and then they react and make trouble for others.

[Barry J]

So you will lie to them because if they know who really are they may disown you?

So their love is conditional?

And you want to drag around this lie for the rest of you life just to appease them? 

I know what I would do

 

[Strikr]

On 23/09/2018 at 0:30 AM, Leo Gura said:

If they are paying your bills, it might be wise to just accept some of those simple compromises like not buying pork or alcohol.

Once you are paying for yourself you can buy whatever you want.

Freedom has to be earned.

You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation.

If you are pursuing nonduality, the irony is that you are more Muslim than they are. But don't tell them that

I like your new answers leo

this one summarize it I suppose

Edited September 26, 2018 by Strikr
s

[Forestluv]

I grew up with a fundamental Catholic family. When I left for college, I used a "slow burn" approach. I gradually started distancing myself. I talked with my parents about my classes and social life - I avoided religion. When I went home, I still went to church with my family (but I did not receive communion). When religion popped up in conversation, I didn't engage - but I did not try to abruptly change the conversation. I just listened and said "Oh. . . Ok. . .. Mmmm. . . interesting. . . "etc. Then, when there was a gap, I gently changed the conversation. Overtime, religion gradually came up less and less. After about 10 years, it never came up again. Even when I visited home. I just joined them for Christmas mass and bowed my head when they said grace during meals. I knew Christmas mass had a lot of meaning for my parents. I didn't make it a big deal. I liked running into old high school friends at mass and the Christmas choir and bells was beautiful.

I never made a big "announcement". I never pretended that I was still Catholic. No drama, no tension. It just gradually dissolved. 

[Your place at Heart]

On 9/22/2018 at 4:20 PM, lmfao said:

Alright so today I've moved out from my parents (for university). I'm typing so as to get me thoughts and feelings to flow out as I'm thinking about how to manage my relationship with my family. My family is muslim and they do not know that I am not muslim and so I'm wondering what to do about my lifestyle since I wont care about whether I eat halal meat or not, care if I get a girlfriend or sleep around, care if I drink alcohol and etc. I rely on my parents for financial support, but I still think that I should soon tell me parents im not Muslim (and hence I'll be living whatever lifestyle I want). Since my dad is more educated and open minded I'll tell him first. And as far as my mum is concerned, it's probably too early to tell her anything. She is an absolute lost cause in trying to negotiate any sort of compromise or alternative viewpoint. 

So lets suppose I go through with telling my family that I'm not religious (with the exception of my mother), the only thing I have to consider is what my father will permit me to spend his money on. He may say to me "Do what you want but don't spend my money on alcohol" and/or "don't spend my money on unhalal meat, dont spend my money on pork". And what I wonder is, if I am put in this situation , what am I to do or say? Since I want to live my live with freedom, I shouldn't accept compromise even if it should mean that I financially struggle. On the other hand I want to put forward the fact that I am thankful for the support hes given me and that I am willing to maintain as close a relationship to the degree that he's willing to accept.  I live in England, a welfare state at the end of the day and in the worst case scenario I accumulate some debt I have to pay off once I start working.

Secondarily I worry about how my relationship with my family will change, but I'll have to accept any changes that come my way. Life is a game at the end of the day.

I am in your similar situation. I just rejected following all sects because the way they developed is through power transition and collective egoism. These People sided with this companion of Muhammad and became this major denomination while other companions choose that person and they became the companions, while those who rejected both called Mu'tazilites(Isolationists) who accepted rationality and philosophical inquiry and later gave birth to the sufi mystics who are as muslim as was the prophet. Civil war broke as result of who sided with whom and they fought aggressively with so much blood in name of who has the sole divine right to say that he represent allah or nonduality, this insanity continues until today.

Everyone by definition is a Muslim(one who total surrender to will of god or non-dual universe or circumstances laid by this non-physical, indivisible, non-dimensional god) because he was born on state of fitrah(complete surrender when they were babies and toddlers, not being able to take care of themselves and completely surrender to their care givers and many die due to lack of care)

Life is struggle and as Prophet said"The strong believer is preferable in the eyes of god, than weak believer".

Just stay strong and years pass quickly. Our lives are short and things get better with time.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Your place at Heart