Wrong expectation about enlightenment

[Baotrader]

I've just had some profound and yet weird experiences. I wanna share and hear your thoughts. When I sit quietly in a restaurant ( I always eat alone) suddenly something went through me. I felt blissful. The whole world seemed to me like a dream ( I don't know if I deluded myself or not because to be honest I already watched Leo's video: Life is a dream). And all the desires for sex, power, money did not interest me anymore. If I had a wish at that moment, I just wanted to be nobody and stay in that moment for ever. I sat quietly for hours and came home. I meditated. Something strange happened: I remembered my weird dream. I was clear to me that the person being conscious in the dream was LITERALLY me. When that dream happened I identified myself as that man in the dream. My mind immediately contemplated: Could it be that in my awakening state I feel conscious and able to think but ACTUALLY there's a higher being that has that feeling and I'm just a vessel. I became conscious of all the irrational and stupid things I had done in the past. I felt every thought I had was not under my control. Moreover,  I realized the mind was just a concept. I realized the difference between we (ordinary human beings) and geniuses is the latter not only have strong personality but also they're bestowed with more intelligence. The thought that comes to a genius's mind contains more insights and ideas than ours. 2 days after an insight came to my mind: Everything is unique in its own way. The Buddha is the Buddha, Einstein is Einstein. The Buddha cannot become intelligently at physics and maths as Einstein, simply because the Buddha is made out of certain elements that make him the Buddha. Albert Einstein cannot meditate because he's made out of certain elements that his mind always receives crazy insights. That insight feels a bit sad to me because it means we cannot change anything. The universe runs on its own accord. We're just the vessel.
About EXPECTATION: In the way I see, people view enlightenment as something like super power. Honestly, Enlightenment is just an awareness-base pursuit. It does not make you as intelligent as Albert Einstein if the universe does not bestow you with that. I have a feeling enlightenment is not only not for everyone but also for people who are exceptionally gifted like scientists who have push their brain to the absolute limits and now they meditate as a way to surrender themselves in order to receive insights from the universe. The second type of people that are suitable for this path is the people who are not so creative. Their mind is quiet and that's why they can just sit and meditate. After hours meditation they receive insights about the nature of life and reality. It's clear to my that enlightened people are wiser than an average person. It's hard for enlightened beings to do stupid things because they're closely connected with their true feelings and they do not lie to themselves. However, enlightenment can make you lazy and passive. What would you expect from a person who has realized life is just a dream and he's got no control over anything? Do you really thing the person who has realized that has the motivation to go out there and compete with other people? I honestly don't see any chance for that. Take an example: Osho. He's no doubt enlightened. But what did he do through his life? Just meditate and bliss out in nothingness. 

[Nahm]

@Baotrader

Thinking is thinking. Awareness is awareness. Are you aware of anything in that post? Or is it all thinking?

[Misagh]

All expectations about enlightenment are a waste of time. 

[Baotrader]

29 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Baotrader

Thinking is thinking. Awareness is awareness. Are you aware of anything in that post? Or is it all thinking?

Come on, you're a moderator. I bet you have done more purification work than I have. You understand what I'm talking about. You are just skillfully using words to avoid the question. Ok, if you want, I can get to the bottom of it. Thinking is a mechanical dumb process. It's a material process. Awareness  is what separates an intelligent man from a not so smart man. Mathematics is a great example of thinking and intuition ( intuition is one aspect of awareness). Average students can just put together all the concepts he learned and then proved/solved the new problems in that way ( using the system). A gifted student suddenly has a theory about his mind about some aspect of that maths problem. He then goes on prove his theory and the problem solved. He himself did not need to use the knowledge in the system he learned before. It seems From a nondual perspective, we know he has intuition. And where does intuition come from? It comes from awareness

[Baotrader]

30 minutes ago, Misagh said:

All expectations about enlightenment are a waste of time. 

From the absolute perspective, Yes you're right. Because enlightenment means you're flowing with life. There's no goal, no purpose after enlightenment. However, from a practical perspective, you wanna do something in life even after enlightenment. Quite frankly, I'd say whatever we want to do in life is just us wanting to piss on the universe before we die, but what else should we do? Just sit and be lazy?

[Misagh]

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There's no goal, no purpose after enlightenment.

There was no goal to begin with. You flow with Karma. The rest is illusion.

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However, from a practical perspective, you wanna do something in life even after enlightenment.

Find out which layer of your ego came up with that and annihilate it.

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I'd say whatever we want to do in life is just us wanting to piss on the universe before we die, but what else should we do? 

There's nothing you should do.

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Just sit and be lazy?

Or sleep and be lazy.

These were all serious answers btw. I said the same thing to Leo: If you realize your existence as Sat Cit Ananda, the rest is illusion. You don't have to be a saint. You don't have to be moral. You don't have to be productive. You don't have to be anything. Who am I talking to? The ego? You are helpless. Deal with it. Shiva is sitting within you, idly looking at me. It is not touched by concepts. It is eternally in bliss. It has by its unknowable power, manifested ALL THIS. It certainly doesn't need the ego to tell it what it should or should not do. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Misagh

[Misagh]

Even Leo knows this. The shakti speaks within him: retire. Leave this business. Come and live forever in bliss. When will he  listen, I don't know. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Misagh

[Misagh]

Another thing:

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From the absolute perspective, Yes you're right.

This sentence shows that you experience duality between you and the outside world. Sure you might have self-realized and achieved non-duality within, but enlightenment doesn't end there. Later comes god consciousness, and after that unity consciousness where you will truly realize nonduality between the inner and the outer.

Remember what christ said:

When you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner, there you shall find me. 

[calibrate]

I wholeheartedly agree that enlightenment isn’t for everyone.

I suspect that’s why not everyone pursues enlightenment ?

[Nahm]

@Baotrader

But what is it, your thoughts, or actuality / direct experience? (All of the content in the post)  Maybe thinking is not material, maybe there is no material, and maybe thinking there is, is thinking at play. There’s no intent to be right here, the intention is move to the next realization. 

Am I a moderator? Does that boil down to your thought, in the way you use it, similar to Buddha & Einstein? 

[Baotrader]

@Nahm I think i understand what you mean and yes it's possible that thinking is not material. If Thinking is not material it becomes contemplation. What I mean is an average man/student cannot create something new or even think of something new simply because they are just remembering what they have learnt and arranged them in a new away. No big thing can be born out of that dumb mechanical process. The last sentence of yours: "Am I a moderator? .... " Do you mean I make a projection on the Buddha and Einstein? Maybe it's just my speculation that even if the Buddha can live and brainstorm for a million year he cannot become as intelligent at maths and physics at Einstein. I doubt if the Buddha could brainstorm at all because he's at nondual state. The moment his mind wanders to some ideas his mind comes back to the present moment. So how can the Buddha be creative? What I mean is every individual is bestowed certain and unique psychology traits and brain capacity. Some people is absorbed and meant to be meditators and can never become a scientist. Some people like Albert Einstein can not become the Buddha because his mind is bombarded with ideas all the time. To be honest, I'd say meditation is for people who have reached the limit of their thinking. They cannot become smarter by academia anymore. An artificial example: A mathematics teacher wants his student to become good at maths but his student cannot become better at maths because he's reached his limit. He cannot become smarter at maths by trying to solve more maths problems. So meditation is required because through meditation a person's intelligence can be increased. A counterintuitive move for that student is to get a chemical brain surgery to become a mathematician. I'm hoping in the future science can do that. 

[Nahm]

@Baotrader

How’s this relative to you though? What’s the ‘juice’?

 

[Baotrader]

@Nahm you're starting to see my point I guess. It has to do with my work here because it shows me the contradictions in what Leo and we are doing. If Leo is consistent with himself, he'll admit that the reason he wants to attain enlightenment is to get more energy ( strengthen his psychology) and connect to infinite intelligence so that he can achieve more in his life ( maybe not  materialistic achievement) but some kind of achievement like being able to invent new technology or solve the world's unsolved mathematics problems. It's still a materialistic desire. It's contradictory to enlightenment. Because enlightenment means you simply live from moment to moment with no goal, no desire, no planning. I'm not saying enlightened people are lazy people but if you look at Osho's life in an honest way, you can clearly see the mentality like "go get a job or start a business, support yourself" never entered into his mind". He even said he would never get into business. He simply lived moment to moment his entire life. It's what laziness is according to common logic. But we know he was not a lazy man. He went on teaching and teaching. However, he had no planning at all. Just imagine what his life would be if no one fed him food unconditionally? no one bought his books? He'd just commit suicide because he wouldn't want to get a job. What we can say about that type of person? Again we'd just call him a useless human being. But that's what enlightenment is. 
About the juice: Do you mean I care about something we have no control over? Maybe, because we're not scientists. Just like the way a maths teacher probably knows the best way is to have his student take a pill that can make him smarter but because that method is not available yet so he needs to rely on a secondary method which is the student will solve more problems. But if the second method is actually useless what is the point of sticking to it? I myself have not found a solution yet. 

[Baotrader]

@Nahm about Leo's mentality, I forgot to say what I say might be just my own projection. But look at the way Leo describes his work: He always plans. He plans his retreat, for example. He focuses a lot on planning which is the work of the mind. He even said the people tell you to stay in the now aren't very enlightened. Leo is a goal-oriented person, the type that always thinks about the future. That's probably the reason Leo prefers Sadhguru a lot. They're both the kind of people that want to try more try more, put more effort.  Enlightened people's mentality is in the now

[Baotrader]

2 hours ago, Misagh said:

Even Leo knows this. The shakti speaks within him: retire. Leave this business. Come and live forever in bliss. When will he  listen, I don't know. 

The truth is if you stay in some place for so long, do only 1 job/thing for so long you'll develop an EGO out of that. Retiring and being lazy is not a solution to transcend ego. But enlightenment works mysteriously. Even when you just sit and eat some profound insights about life can come to your mind. Hard to say...

[Nahm]

@Baotrader

 About the juice, I meant, if nonduality is accurate, then you are Einstein & Buddha, and “Einstein & Buddha” reveal something to you, about you, from you.  

I’d say the point is the teacher’s experience, and the student’s experience, and the experience of each allowing the experience of the other, unless they’re enlightened, then, like you pointed out, there’s no point, except the experience.  I hear what you’re saying about Leo & Sadhguru, but in the same vein, what does that say to you, in your awakening? Maybe upon your enlightenment, you’ll be the one to resolve the hard problem of science, bridging the quantum & atomic. That’d be really cool I assume. Maybe Leo’s already done that though. It’s inherently confusing, the matter of what another person would do in enlightenment. Lol. 

[Haumea2018]

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However, enlightenment can make you lazy and passive. What would you expect from a person who has realized life is just a dream and he's got no control over anything? Do you really thing the person who has realized that has the motivation to go out there and compete with other people?

Two points:

1) Just because a certain veil has been lifted, doesn't mean that saps your motivation to live.  In fact, now you may have fewer obstacles to a fulfilling life.

2) You may now have goals more in tune with your true nature and purpose.

[Leo Gura]

@Baotrader What are you missing is that all of the stuff you compete for is an illusion, a dream.

It's not that enlightened people are lazy, it's that unenlightened people are deluded. Deluded people do foolish things, like competing, because they are not wise enough to see it is delusion.

You are a mouse running in wheel chasing an imaginary piece of cheese. When someone comes along and points this out to you, you say, "But if I stop I will just be a lazy mouse who sits still. I must keep running until I'm dead."

That is the tragedy of your predicament. You are so mesmerized by life that you refuse to stop and question it. "No time to stop, I've got important cheese to chase."

You are creating a false dichotomy between being enlightened vs working. You can do both and in fact enlightenment will make you extremely effective at anything you choose to do. The best scientists will be enlightened ones.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The best scientists will be enlightened ones.

[Baotrader]

@Leo Gura do you mean we work without caring too much if we succeed or not? I'll consider it