What's after turquoise?

[Robert]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

I'm not enlightened, yet I think I've have had some temporary experiences that could be considered enlightened experiences (based on how awakened teachers talk about it).

When you say "Enlightenment is realizing the absolute truth, so it's kind of how you see reality." I don't have a full understanding, yet based on my glimpses - it seems like this is a piece of a higher truth. Like one facet of a diamond. 

Humanity is unenlightened. We see reality wrong. That's why we spread lies all the time and we don't take responsibility for anything. We're not as spiritual as we're supposed to be. If we were enlightened, if we start to see reality right, everyone would be happy. It would be true harmony.

Just now, yawning_ said:

@Robert

maybe the brackets didn't work in favor of clarity there, read that as being is consciousness/awareness

 

as to say without the action of becoming, one/all is just consciousness/awareness

 

taken that being is the nature or essence of a person, would not being and consciousness be synonymous?

 

it is rather needless to assign a value of 'how much' to that which is infinite

 

n̤͉̗̉̄̑͐̓͗ͤ͑͆͋ͦͨͮ̚a͓̺̳̻̟̹͈͓̪͎̻̖̜͎̪ͥͨ͗̑m̮̣̫̥̝͙͚̞̼̭̞̤̳ͦ̌̃͛ͫ̿ͫͅà̺͉̠̼͙̪̪͕̜̝͇̩̟̤͆̾̋̃̽ͫ̏̽ͭ͋ͩ̿s̭̳̖̥̝̫̼͍̟̺͙͖̖͈ͬ͒̾͗̃͌͆́̓̅ͦ̇͊͗͐͒̚ͅt̗͈̗̬̔͒ͥͦ̔ͧ̏̍͌͋̾̉ͅe̩͎̭̣̬͍̙̲̬̞̟͍̯͕̖͇̯̳ͬ̓̌ͮ̉̃ͫ͂͗̑

 

- yawning gap

Reality, which God created, is infinite. Consciousness is what gives us the experience of reality; infinite experiences. Consciousness is not reality itself, even if everything is connected. This is why I might not say consciousness is infinite, even if consciousness can have infinite experiences.

Being is what exists. It is NOT non-existence like some people believe. It's only for existence. And it's different from consciousness because you don't have to be conscious is order to be. You can BE unconscious.

[yawning_]

@Robert

i certainly see the honor in such a perspective and observe the utmost respect for you, thank you!

 

suppose the 'us' that "consciousness gives the experience of reality" to is nothing more than the experience of reality through consciousness, and that it is merely a creation of itself

 

given that being is what exists; suppose that, regardless of the interpretation of the mind, being is still and always there... so one can identify as being  either conscious or unconscious but that sliver of being is only relative to movement (thought or lack thereof) of the mind.  within this frame, one can only "be" whatever it is that he/she/it identifies as/with.

 

the experience of (holistic) being i refer to is of unlimited nature as it is constant and whose origin does not trace back to a categorization or description by thought

 

all exists as and within this continual being - including mental constructs, but they do not define it - it may both exist and not exist, it may be different from consciousness and may be similar

 

what one associates with the self occur within being but are an addition to what already is, and are not particularly indicative of its essence...

 

infinite blessings

 

 

n͍͎̲͎̼̑̿̒͋ͮͬ̒̍͗ͪ̒̀ͣͬ̌̊ͫ̽a̩̫͔̞̖̜̰̬̩̻̜̹͇̹̔ͩ̿̍ͬ͌̆m̝̯̪̗̣̹̞̠̠̙̦̙͎̩̠̘̼ͫ̏̃ͬ̔ͪ̂ͦ͑͐ͣͪͫ̓̓ä͎͉̙̠̜͕̼͔͇̻̘̹͖͖͎̝́̄ͭ͐ͤ͒ͤ̃͐ͅs̳̲̮̓ͯ̂ͅt͚͖̹̝̥͐͋ͣ̏͐ͣͭ̄ͤ͛̄ͧ̓͌̾͊̆̍̚e̺͙͖͕͉̞̻͍͉ͧͣ̌ͨͤ̾͛̄͑ͨ̄͂͊͌̍̈̔ͅ

 

- yawning gap

[Forestluv]

On 9/25/2018 at 3:54 PM, Robert said:

Humanity is unenlightened. We see reality wrong. That's why we spread lies all the time and we don't take responsibility for anything. We're not as spiritual as we're supposed to be. If we were enlightened, if we start to see reality right, everyone would be happy. It would be true harmony.

That sounds like a human construct to me. It’s filled with interpretation, value judgement and intention. 

You seem to use a lot of intellectual concepts and present them as truth. Those ideas are not truth, they arise from truth. Be aware that if your mind holds those ideas as beliefs, it will limit your expansion. All those concepts are within something much broader and deeper. Don’t get too attached to them. Be open, flexible and nimble ?

[Joseph Maynor]

On 9/21/2018 at 4:50 AM, Misagh said:

@Leo Gura Considering how enlightenment doesn't seem to stop deepening, is there a clear boundary in your model for when this stage ends? If so is it simply non-incarnation? 

Non-incarnation is simply realizing the Egoic self is an illusion as well as all Maya a.k.a. Thought and Experience.  Once you realize the true Self as God Awareness, you'll see that the true Self has nothing to do with Thought or Experience i.e., Incarnation.  I include this realization in my definition of Stage Coral.  Coral realizes the illusion of Experience fully as well as the illusion of Thought.  Turquoise doesn't really use the word 'illusion' much because they have to maintain Ego in their reality in several different ways.  In fact, Turquoise starting to take the issue of illusion seriously is their gateway to Coral.  The problem is, Maya has to die for this to happen, which is traumatic, or at least it was for me.  You're gonna have a real mindf*ck when you realize that Maya in all of its manifestations (not just the Egoic self but also Other Beings) is a literal illusion.  It sent me to my second Dark Night of the Soul actually.  My first Dark Night of the Soul was when I realized the Egoic self is not my true Self.  The first one happened much earlier on than the second one, which was recent.  Once I started to take illusion seriously, Turquoise started to break down for me.  Turquoise is still very much attached to Ego, especially helping others and trying to make a big helpful impact on reality.  That's not to say Coral doesn't teach or try to help, but they're not attached to it like Turquoise is.  Coral realizes that the illusory Egoic self is gonna do whatever it wants to, but you don't wanna cling to that.  God Awareness doesn't cling to Ego a.k.a. illusory Maya.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Misagh]

@Joseph Maynor Great answer. I specially agree with the part where you said that Turquoise is attached with positively impacting maya. It's funny because whenever I mention this (that their attachment is yet another ego illusion) to Turquoise individuals they ignore me, much like how lower stages ignore advice that can shatter their own attachments. You seem to have the Sat (being-ness) and Cit (intelligence) aspects of the Self realized. Have you made any headways in realizing the last aspect, ananda (bliss)?

I can't say that I have ever had to go through the dark night of the soul. I certainly did have to go through the dark night of the mind (which you called your first dark night of the soul) where I couldn't figure out what I was independent of the ego. Also, when realization finally dawned, it wasn't as shocking an experience as most people seem to have (judging by the "I am enlightened" posts here which are in abundance). But I guess that was because my ego had never had that tight a grip over me. I had always been doubting and seeking since childhood. 

[cirkussmile]

Then Coral is simply non duality.

I think Tony Parsons and Jim Newman talks about this today. Even though they leave no room what so ever for deepening or learning which I would like to add. 

[Haumea2018]

Spiral Dynamics is totally becoming a cancer for spiritual seekers here.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it.

It's like an extra layer of bullshit to keep one ego-entranced.  As if other stuff wasn't enough.

The ego latches on to any notions of specialness like flies on flypaper.

When you're fully enlightened it doesn't really matter to you what structural stage you're in.

It's mildly amusing but you don't take it seriously, don't care.

Only people who are not yet fully enlightened take this stuff seriously.

As I've said before and I'll say again, it's just a fork from the seeking path to keep seeking (i.e. keep the ego alive.)

Wilber's promotion of it is due to his incomplete awakening (and probably his massive blindspot which prioritizes certain qualities like universalism over the scary shadow of ethnocentrism of any flavor.)  

He has a strong unwillingness to let go of all the intellectual crap, all the knowledge of object which you need to enter God Consciousness (800s.)

His personal issues need not be your issues.

Smart guys find smart ways to keep seeking instead of fully awakening.

There is such a thing as being too smart for one's own good when it comes to this stuff.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Barry J]

@Haumea2018  that’s such a brown thing to say 

[Haumea2018]

Quote

that’s such a brown thing to say 

LOL.

Doo-doo brown!

 

[Barry J]

Yep, Spiral Dynamics Tier 3 Bullshit stage

[Haumea2018]

I was like, genuinely concerned that people would start claiming Indigo status by 2019.

Indigo chillun!

Like, Stop The Madness!

Aight?

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Forestluv]

13 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

Spiral Dynamics is totally becoming a cancer for spiritual seekers here.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it.

It's like an extra layer of bullshit to keep one ego-entranced.  As if other stuff wasn't enough.

The ego latches on to any notions of specialness like flies on flypaper.

When you're fully enlightened it doesn't really matter to you what structural stage you're in.

It's mildly amusing but you don't take it seriously, don't care.

Only people who are not yet fully enlightened take this stuff seriously.

As I've said before and I'll say again, it's just a fork from the seeking path to keep seeking (i.e. keep the ego alive.)

Wilber's promotion of it is due to his incomplete awakening (and probably his massive blindspot which prioritizes certain qualities like universalism over the scary shadow of ethnocentrism of any flavor.)  

He has a strong unwillingness to let go of all the intellectual crap, all the knowledge of object 

Are you aware that you are criticizing a model of consciousness with a model of consciousness? Don’t get too attached your model. ?

[cetus]

On 9/21/2018 at 7:50 AM, Misagh said:

Considering how enlightenment doesn't seem to stop deepening, is there a clear boundary in your model for when this stage ends? If so is it simply non-incarnation?

Yes. Crystalline- perfect clarity beyond all "states" of awareness. The absolute.

[Robert]

@yawning_ Thank you too!

About what you said about being what you identify with, the problem with that idea is that no matter what you do, the consciousness that an organism has is dependent on its body. This is why if you cut a human brain/head a certain way, literally slice a human brain/head a certain way that keeps the organism alive, you can cause a split of consciousness into 2 different experiences, both experiencing different sensations (sight, hearing, etc.) This has been proven with neuroscience. I first heard about this idea of consciousness being split in Waking Up by Sam Harris. Let's say the 2 organisms originally were enlightened when they were just 1 organism, the split can now cause those 2 organisms to lose enlightenment faster since they are now 2 different organisms. Basically, it could be like having 2 egos, and 2 different stories, even if those 2 were originally 1 ego and 1 story. This can sound scary to a lot of people.

So my point is that even if you switch identities with someone, you still can't just simply switch experiences with them. That's not how it works.

What are your thoughts on this? It was nice talking to you. 

@Serotoninluv I appreciate your advice, but I take my contemplations very seriously. I don't just spout random nonsense. Everything I said above is true. God created our infinite reality and human beings in general are unenlightened due to a number of things including a huge lack of responsibility, thus they see reality wrong and are suffering all the time. This is a fact.

I'm always open to learning more, but this does not mean I can't state the facts.

It was nice talking to you also.

@Joseph Maynor Honestly, I no longer believe that you're Coral. I get such a Yellow vibe from you. I think you're Yellow and just now starting to move into Turquoise. You might have somewhat of an intellectual understanding of Coral, but this does not mean you're at that stage yet.

I also seen in another thread where you said you can be "enlightened as fuck" and still have an ego. That makes no sense! Enlightenment is when you drop your ego. The more enlightened you are, the less ego you have.

Also, you're wrong about Turquoise people being attached to ego and trying to make an impact "on reality." Turquoise people are usually the ones who say everything is an illusion and then they do nothing to help the universe. This is because they're delusional. However, they are definitely not attached to ego. The Turquoise people I've seen and spoken to are the most detached people on the planet when it comes to ego.

@cirkussmile Coral is not simply nonduality. Spiral Dynamics is not simply nonduality. See my post above about stages of consciousness versus enlightenment.

@Haumea2018 You seem to have many preconceived notions about enlightenment. Ideas, beliefs, etc.

Drop all of that and go discover things for yourself. You don't know what an enlightened person takes seriously until you actually become enlightened.

[Nahm]

What’s is a   “fact”   really? 

”God” creates your reality?

Who says these objective things.

[Robert]

Just now, Nahm said:

What’s is a   “fact”   really? 

”God” creates your reality?

Who says these objective things.

A fact is a relative truth, and they can change. For example, one fact is that this forum, the Actualized.org forum, exists. This is a relative truth. However, if Leo decides to take this forum down, shut it down completely, it would no longer exist, so the fact of its existence would change. That's a relative truth.

No, God created all of reality. We all share the same reality, which is infinite. We may have different experiences, but reality will always be infinite and the same for all of us.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Robert

[Nahm]

@Robert Okay.