What's after turquoise?

[Robert]

@Misagh I don't have time to give an in-depth explanation of Coral.

Maybe ask @Joseph Maynor since he said he wrote about it?

But as for Coral without enlightenment, I think the easiest way to notice this is to stop seeing the word "consciousness" as synonymous with "enlightenment." They're not synonyms. Spiral Dynamics is a model for stages of consciousness, yes, but NOT a model for stages of enlightenment. Notice that when you switch those two words, the meaning becomes very different. The word "consciousness" is more associated with perception, whereas the word "enlightenment" refers to the absolute truth (which goes beyond all discussion and I don't believe any model could ever do it justice.) You can be conscious and percieving the absolute truth, therefore enlightened. But you can also be conscious and not percieving the absolute truth, therefore unenlightened. However you can never be unconscious and perceiving the absolute truth, because a total loss of consciousness is death. You need to be conscious as a precursor to becoming "enlightened." So if you see Spiral Dynamics as stages of consciousness, something that enlightenment depends on, you see a model that is more associated with perception such as ways of thinking, as opposed to the absolute truth which goes beyond all thinking. The ways of thinking that develop over time is more of what Spiral Dynamics is a model of. This is why some people who are Blue on the spiral have enlightenment experiences and then start to think of enlightenment as a specific deity they were taught about. But we know when they move up to stage Orange they'll be saying something different.

However, with all of that being said, still, the more conscious you become, the more enlightened you become. And the more enlightened you become, of course the more conscious you become. But this doesn't make them the same, and Spiral Dynamics is just one model for stages of consciousness but not enlightenment.

Does this make sense, OP?

Edited September 23, 2018 by Robert

[Nahm]

On 9/23/2018 at 11:03 AM, Robert said:

@Misagh Saying Spiral Dynamics is a model for enlightenment is spreading false information, because it's not.

But anyway, I was mainly talking about @Nahm and @yawning_ when I said everyone was spreading false information.

Just because stage Coral is unattainable to them (due to close-mindedness) they claim that it's unattainable to everyone.

Not so, guys.

And yes, the stages after Turquoise can be reached without enlightenment. To me, that's pretty easy to concieve. I'm sure people have done that before.

Don’t you see we are saying the same?

Coral is not in duality of identity silly head. 

When have you ever experienced verbalizing such things as “them being closed minded”, without soon discovering nonduality again? 

Who are them, Robert?

[Robert]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

Don’t you see we are saying the same?

I see how we can be, I guess. But you should have mentioned all stages in your other post and not just Coral.

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

Coral is not in duality of identity silly head. 

Yes!

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

When have you ever experienced verbalizing such things as “them being closed minded”, without soon discovering nonduality again?

Years ago. Before my first enlightenment.

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

Who are them, Robert?

They are me. 

Thank you, Nahm.

[Nahm]

@Robert Thank you! ??

[Robert]

@Nahm No, thank you. ?

[Nahm]

@Robert No no no no. It’s all you man!

[yawning_]

On 9/23/2018 at 2:05 PM, Robert said:

However, with all of that being said, still, the more conscious you become, the more enlightened you become. And the more enlightened you become, of course the more conscious you become. But this doesn't make them the same, and Spiral Dynamics is just one model for stages of consciousness but not enlightenment.

indeed

 

though becoming sort of fizzles out and there's just being [consciousness]

 

bless

 

 

n̖̤͚̦͇̩̥͙͖̥̟̥̋͑ͬ͑ͦ̉̏̈́ͪ̐̃̚̚̚â̘͈̝̺̘͍͖̦̱̝̣̠͔͕̱̬̥̈̍ͫͨ̋̈́͑ͮ́m̻͕͚̝̙̉͒̍̉ͦ̿̐͂̎̋̃̊̾́̀̾ͭå͉̫̯͈̲̘̱̣͕̙̼͓̭̑͗ͭͩ̋ͨ͊̓ͦͧͅs̥̻͕̬ͦ̿̽̓ͮ̑ͮͥ̇͑ͨ̓͆̈͒ͨͪ̑t̙̙̤̩̘͎̩̣̥͉͗̓̓̐̓ͦ͌ͣe̩͈̜̩̓͆̋ͣ͗ͧ̋̾̄ͭ̿̒ͭ̒

 

- yawning gap

[Robert]

@Nahm Notice what you said will always be true no matter what. This is how I live.

@yawning_ I wouldn't say "being'' and "consciousness" are synonyms either. You could "be," but how "conscious" of that are you?

[Nahm]

@Robert Welcome back to the magic man. Keep an eye for me, when I forget. ?? We’re also in this mindfuck of a paradox together. 

[Forestluv]

@Robert You post stimulated a couple ideas:

All theory (including SD) is *within* enlightenment. 

All theory (including SD) is part of The Game. 

[Robert]

@Nahm Yes! Thanks.

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

@Robert You post stimulated a couple ideas:

All theory (including SD) is *within* enlightenment. 

All theory (including SD) is part of The Game. 

What is The Game exactly?

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Robert said:

@Nahm Yes! Thanks.

What is The Game exactly?

Good question. I'm still trying to solve it.

I'd say The Game is similar to how Leo describes The Maze in his video. I'd consider SD to be within The Maze and The Maze to be within enlightenment.

[ChimpMonk]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[ajasatya]

On 21/09/2018 at 8:50 AM, Misagh said:

What's after turquoise?

you throw the spiral dynamics framework away.

[Robert]

@Serotoninluv I would say all theory (including SD) is within reality, not within enlightenment. Reality is everything, how everything is. Enlightenment is realizing the absolute truth, so it's kind of how you see reality. You can see reality wrong or you can see reality right. Enlightenment is when you see reality right, but it isn't bigger than reality.

And I think you can say all theory is a part of The Game. When people say "The Game" it seems like they're referring to pursuing enlightenment and/or competing in some way. If that's the case, you can consider all theory as useful but relative truths that can eventually bring you to the absolute truth, or, in other words, winning "The Game," as some might say. So if we look at Spiral Dynamics as theory for the game, we're basically saying it's helpful to get to enlightenment or whatever we consider to be the biggest victory or win. This, I know, is a good way of looking at it and I'm pretty sure most people would agree.

But I, personally, do not like "The Game" as a whole, if it is what I think it is. I can imagine something much better than what I see.

[yawning_]

@Robert

maybe the brackets didn't work in favor of clarity there, read that as being is consciousness/awareness

 

as to say without the action of becoming, one/all is just consciousness/awareness

 

taken that being is the nature or essence of a person, would not being and consciousness be synonymous?

 

it is rather needless to assign a value of 'how much' to that which is infinite

 

n̤͉̗̉̄̑͐̓͗ͤ͑͆͋ͦͨͮ̚a͓̺̳̻̟̹͈͓̪͎̻̖̜͎̪ͥͨ͗̑m̮̣̫̥̝͙͚̞̼̭̞̤̳ͦ̌̃͛ͫ̿ͫͅà̺͉̠̼͙̪̪͕̜̝͇̩̟̤͆̾̋̃̽ͫ̏̽ͭ͋ͩ̿s̭̳̖̥̝̫̼͍̟̺͙͖̖͈ͬ͒̾͗̃͌͆́̓̅ͦ̇͊͗͐͒̚ͅt̗͈̗̬̔͒ͥͦ̔ͧ̏̍͌͋̾̉ͅe̩͎̭̣̬͍̙̲̬̞̟͍̯͕̖͇̯̳ͬ̓̌ͮ̉̃ͫ͂͗̑

 

- yawning gap

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, Robert said:

@Serotoninluv I would say all theory (including SD) is within reality, not within enlightenment. Reality is everything, how everything is. Enlightenment is realizing the absolute truth, so it's kind of how you see reality. You can see reality wrong or you can see reality right. Enlightenment is when you see reality right, but it isn't bigger than reality.

I'm not enlightened, yet I think I've have had some temporary experiences that could be considered enlightened experiences (based on how awakened teachers talk about it).

When you say "Enlightenment is realizing the absolute truth, so it's kind of how you see reality." I don't have a full understanding, yet based on my glimpses - it seems like this is a piece of a higher truth. Like one facet of a diamond. 

[Emanyalpsid]

I think, therefore I am the truth

[ajasatya]

4 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

I think, therefore I am the truth

you are Truth regardless of what you think.

you are Truth regardless of your capability to think.

you are Truth regardless of what you seek or avoid.

you cannot be anything else.

[yawning_]

@Emanyalpsid

you are the truth whether or not thoughts arise

 

 

ǹ̝̞͈̻̭̳̰͈̟̰͈͊ͫͭa̼̞̗͔̲̜̜̗͌ͪ̊͑ͣ̽̇͑̈̇̚m̹̯̲͚̤͍̜̭̻̟̤̮ͤ͋̑̈̌ͫ̈ͣͪ̎̀̎a̠͈̖̗̗̙͕͙̭͗ͤͩ̅̑̊ͩ̿̾ͪs͕̳̫̘̺̖͆ͧ̋̂̾̾ͤ̅̈́͐̇ͥ̾̌̋̌ͯͨt̹̳̫̐ͥ́̈́́ͥ̑̏̋̅̇͒ͤ͋̅ͫ̂͐ͥé̮͙͇̺͈̮͕͎̫͚̲̥͓͇̹̖̫̮̯̐̀̒

 

- yawning gap

 

ah bless you @ajasatya

 

one step ahead!

Edited September 25, 2018 by yawning_