I wish Jordan Peterson wasn't such a pussy sometimes lol

[SgtPepper]

40 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It sounds like those professors were uninformed and took no position on psychedelics. That is very different than a clinical psychologist / academic taking a misinformed stand on psychedelics in the national media. Academics hold themselves to a higher standard. I find it hard to believe that a clinical psycholgist / academic could make such obvious errors in the national spotlight without being told. 

Similarly with clinical psychologist. This is their career. They are the specialists. They are at the forefront of psychedelic therapy. Sadly, there are still clinical psychologists trapped in old dogma that psycgedelics just cause bad trips. There is research dating back 50 years and and plethora of recent research. Psychedelic Therapy is in stage III clinical trials. Last year the FDA granted psychedelics status as breakthrough therapy.  We will begin to see Dr. office psychedelic therapy in just a few years. This is what clinical psychologists do and those that are uniformed or misinformed are not highly qualified. They are way behind the times.

If JP truly knew, he'd be there talking about it. 

I agree with you. This is why I am studying to become a clinical psychologist and will try to be active force on the psychedelic front. 

Some professors weren't just uninformed though, they had a position that psychedelics were dangerous. Of course you're gonna have those professors who probably did it in their youth a couple of times though and probably kept it a secret.

Edit:

I think there is a big stigma around psychs, it's gonna take a while for people to get into this new form of energy. Let alone stuff like Kriya Yoga and Bioenergetics.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by SgtPepper

[Forestluv]

41 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

If JP truly knew, he'd be there talking about it. 

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Leo, you are absolutely right those are very serious issues. And I care about those things. To me, JP is pointing to those top capitalist who are using their influence to use propaganda in the media and lobby the government in an effort to create a totalitarian system. I think JP and libertarianism sprang up for this reason. Even JP in his book talks about not being an ideologue about anything. I went through a phase of libertarianism, watched some Milton Friedman material, I felt it was necessary to really understand the effect of individualism, but I also saw its limitations. Which I believe there is an alternative to the capitalism we have now and the communism that happened then. 

perhaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism 

Libertarianism is a stage Orange trap. It will not solve those social issues. It will actually worsen them.

You are NOT going to curb pollution by deregulation. You will only get more pollution.

In a free marketplace, ego will exploit, dominate, monopolize, and enslave everyone it can, until it stopped by use of force.

Libertarianism is fundamentally untenable because it does not understand how ego works, how exploitative ego is.

If allowed, ego will enslave and rape. The history books are filled with that.

You cannot tame the ego to good behavior through reason and moral principles, as libertarians imagine. State use of force is absolutely required.

Anarchism is even more naive and foolish than libertarianism.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

If JP truly knew, he'd be there talking about it. 

You are correct. I did some more researching and found a video with JP giving an accurate description of psychedelics. He actually sounds quite readonable here. I wonder why he changes his tune.

 

[Samra]

My boyfriend is in love with JP and he refuses to listen to any of Leo's videos. I'm trying to keep an open mind, since I don't mind JP. But I'm more annoyed that he doesn't listen to any of Leo's videos. He reads the books though. Relationships were already hardwork . And now JP had made it even harder )))) but I guess this is all part of progress. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Samra

[Leo Gura]

@Samra My condolesences

[Samra]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Samra My condolesences

Noooooo. Don't say that. I can make it work!

[Joseph Maynor]

I’m so glad I don’t have to play the game of arguing about Jordan Peterson.  I wish him well.  There are worse ways to make a living than he is.  And if you don’t like him — it’s a simple solution: ignore him.  I’m sure he probably doesn’t like you either.  But he’s getting paid and we’re not, so there you have it.  We don’t wanna be a bunch of whiners lost in ‘poor me’ narratives.  If you wanna say something about the dude, say it once and then let go.  It’s not worth going into over and over.  It just causes you suffering.  Ditto for talking about Trump.  It’s not worth your own peace of mind to even mention Trump.  You gotta start to realize that you keep these demons alive by feeding them.  I never watch the news, talk about Trump etc., and because of that I honestly wish Trump well because there’s no love lost.  I couldn’t care less frankly!  And that detachment is what allows me to have compassion for people like that.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Dinesh Karki]

I am currently listing audio book by  Jiddu Krishnamurti "Freedom from the Known". He also talked about ideology trap.

[Haumea2018]

Stage Green can't provide any solutions because it lacks the mechanisms to discern what actually works as this requires value judgments of Blue (stability) and Orange (competence) which it rejects.

It can point out problems but not provide workable solutions.

This is why Yellow is coming in as the new leading edge.  Yellow integrates Blue and Orange in search of answers for Green-discovered problems.

There's nothing wrong with a healthy Green, but we rarely see that anymore as it twists itself into knots of self-contradiction every step of the way.

Green is done as a leading edge.  When dominant, it ultimately leads to disintegration in its extreme mode. "Aperspectival madness" as Wilber himself said.  San Francisco streets are overflowing with human feces.

This is what Peterson is trying to get to without maybe being explicit about it (or maybe he has described it, but I haven't seen it.)

Being concerned about aperspectival madness doesn't make you some kind of regressive Blue guy, it's a normal reaction to what's going on.  It's not like Joe Rogan isn't concerned about a lot of it himself.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Rilles]

Your title doesnt make any sense whatsoever! 

How exactly did JP say anything wrong in this video, heres an outline of what he said:

•”I have no idea what psychedelics do, they bend the structure of reality” That shows a humbleness an openmindedness thats very unusual in high academia. “They show us how little we know” Again very humble toward the substances. 

•”Psilocybin has 85% success rate in stopping smoking” Again a positive comment.

•”Before you entered the Holy Of Holies you needed to purify yourself” All he says here is beware of set and setting, be cautious, these substances can show you very uncomfortable truths.

 

Again, I dont get the point of your thread, from my perspective JP is just saying treat these substances with respect. To say he is a pussy is very immature.  

 

[Haumea2018]

At this point a lot of people here have unfortunately developed a knee-jerk reaction to JBP.

It's called being balanced.  He is never going to be Timothy fucking Leary on psychedelics but he's not exactly the US Congress in 1966 either.

I've done major psychedelics very beneficially, and I don't see anything wrong with what he says.  Not like there aren't a lot of  fools out there who aren't mature enough to do it wisely.

There are layers of precautions necessary.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Haumea2018

[The Don]

In my case Jordan Peterson has helped me a lot. I won't "project much" on him. I love him as a human being. I won't do what most people do here, which is throwing nonsensical bullshit at him.

"Oh oh, let's criticize Jordan Peterson for his 'bullshit' and will rain with gold." Hell no! I'm not gonna do that.

Some parts of the Blue value system is NECESSARY. If you fail to understand that we are in trouble, and of course you need wisdom.

Edited September 20, 2018 by The Don

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

Stage Green can't provide any solutions because it lacks the mechanisms to discern what actually works as this requires value judgments of Blue (stability) and Orange (competence) which it rejects.

It can point out problems but not provide workable solutions.

This is why Yellow is coming in as the new leading edge.  Yellow integrates Blue and Orange in search of answers for Green-discovered problems.

There's nothing wrong with a healthy Green, but we rarely see that anymore as it twists itself into knots of self-contradiction every step of the way.

Green is done as a leading edge.  When dominant, it ultimately leads to disintegration in its extreme mode. "Aperspectival madness" as Wilber himself said.  San Francisco streets are overflowing with human feces.

This is what Peterson is trying to get to without maybe being explicit about it (or maybe he has described it, but I haven't seen it.)

Being concerned about aperspectival madness doesn't make you some kind of regressive Blue guy, it's a normal reaction to what's going on.  It's not like Joe Rogan isn't concerned about a lot of it himself.

Yes, stage green has it’s limits - yet stage green understands cultural relativism -and so does stage yellow. JP is not looking at green from a yellow perspective. He is criticizing green from a blue/orange perspective. For example, he is oblivious to what a polyamory sexual orientation is. His position of forced monogamy is deeply blue. 

Forced monogamy on people with a polyamory orientation is akin to gay conversion therapy. Some people don’t want to get married or have children and want to have multiple sexual partners. This triggers JP’s blue - what is moral / immoral. Family values. Traditional gender roles. Disempiwering women etc. 

JP and his ilk are threatened from what they perceive as red. They see polyamory as people acting out their reddish primal desires of sex. They fear this will disrupt natural order and morality. What they don't understand is that polyamory at a Green level is much different and more sophisticated than polyamory at a red level. We are not talking about warlords and thugs sleeping around with women. Green-level polyamory is about open communication, consent among everyone involved, empathy, understanding, commitment, love and community. JP and others stuck in blue/orange do not understand this. It takes a radically open mind - of which JP lacks. 

So many orange-level people want to skip green and think they can go straight to yellow. It doesn't work that way. One needs to experience and understand green before advancing to yellow. Without doing so, they will lack key aspects of empathy, love and an aspect of relative thinking.

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

Francisco streets are overflowing with human feces.

You lose credibility with the above-stated hyperbole.  I live in San Francisco.  People love to hate on San Francisco,  but few of those  people could even afford to live here.  That’s the reality.  San Francisco makes most other cities and places to live seem like second-tier cities at best.  That’s why people hate on San Francisco.  Same reason people hate on New York City and other first-tier cities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco

Edited September 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Setty]

It seems to me that most of the JP bashing here is unjustified. People like to use the term stage blue as if it is something degrating to be and you should strive to get out of it and evolve but evolution has no desirable goal and it is not required for an individual to go through all stages of spiral dynamics in his lifetime. 

Every stage is suppose to be build on top of the previous one because otherwise the society would be unstable and collapse. JP is trying to figure out what it means to be a true christian and people resonate with his teachings because he elevates them from lower parts of blue to the higher parts. Now tell me how else are stage blue people going to transit to the next stage than through people like Peterson?

If you find his teachings wrong then maybe it is because your ego is trying to defend your identification with the higher stages and you can't see the bigger picture.

[Forestluv]

@Setty Thanks for adding in your perspective. 

For some reason, JP seems to bring out strong opinions  - in both his supporters and critics. It’s easy to fall into the trap of getting attached to just one perspective. I think it can be good to have various perspectives in the mix.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Setty said:

he elevates them from lower parts of blue to the higher parts. Now tell me how else are stage blue people going to transit to the next stage than through people like Peterson?

He is not so innocent. He's polarizing people against Green. If all he did was help elevate low Blue to high Blue that would not be a problem. But what he is doing is entrenching Blue deeper into Blue by giving them an out-group to hate: Green.

JP demonizes Green to gain the love and money of Blue. This is not just done innocently. It is a shrewd marketing tactic. The only way someone like JP becomes as popular as he is, is by being deliberately controversial and polarizing.

Many of JP's viewers don't even realize his teachings are a Trojan horse for a stage Blue value system. They lack any capacity to make such fine distinctions.

Fear-mongering and moral crusading is a classic stage Blue recruitment tool.

Not to mention how JP's philosophy makes young men hate women.

JP is not popular because he helps evolve Blue people but because his philosophy is the perfect excuse for Blue people to never evolve. The Blue ego seeks sources to tell it that Blue is best and there is no higher to go. Blue has this need and Blue will pull out their wallet to pay for it being met.

Trashing JP is not the point. The point is to be aware of the Trojan horse.

[stevegan928]

On 9/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, lmfao said:

Jordan said that his IQ was tested to be over 150.

i think i remember him saying he's at 130 or 140 but not 150. i could be wrong i guess. i think 130 is technically genius.

On 9/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, lmfao said:

I might be wrong don't quote me

 

[stevegan928]

On 9/19/2018 at 5:41 PM, Serotoninluv said:

I don’t understand how JP resonates so strongly with so many people

just listen to one of his lectures. if you don't like it that's fine, it's fine to have bad taste. i have bad taste in movies, you have bad taste in lectures.