Enlightenment and suffering

[Barry J]

“Hey kids, it’s Leo! Come with me to my virtual Mario bros rape dungeon where you will be sexually abused and stabbed to death! It’s called enlightenment! Trust me! It’s awesome!”

[Tistepiste]

@Nahm @eputkonen

Thanks for the thorough and interesting replies. Will read this multiple times. Appreciate your time and effort to explain! Having people like you around me in my daily life would be of great benefit haha.

@everyone else thanks for participating in the discussion

[Nahm]

@Tistepiste

??

Hey, what’s up with your profile picture? Just curious. 

[Tistepiste]

@Nahm kind of a reflection of what my mind felt like for the past few months.

Full of dark negative thoughts, but in the center a clear white light that I know was always there and will always be there. When I get my focus back, I can feel that central light again, when it is not swallowed by the dark matter around it. It's a reminder for myself that I know that peace is there and that I will reach it back eventually.

But I think I am on the right track!

[Nahm]

@Tistepiste That’s beautiful. Thanks!

[Hellspeed]

You are funny guys  

[Ingit]

5 hours ago, Tistepiste said:

@Nahm kind of a reflection of what my mind felt like for the past few months.

Full of dark negative thoughts, but in the center a clear white light that I know was always there and will always be there. When I get my focus back, I can feel that central light again, when it is not swallowed by the dark matter around it. It's a reminder for myself that I know that peace is there and that I will reach it back eventually.

But I think I am on the right track!

wow

[Tistepiste]

@eputkonen I read your post again but can you explain me how you would go about traumatic events then.

What do you do if you don't want to carry traumatic events by denying them? What do you do? I mean the thought of the trauma comes up. And then? Acknowledge it? And then? How do you let go of it? How do you stop it from causing influence on you? How are you *free* of supressing it? What's the difference between surpressing it and not thinking about it?

[Haumea2018]

Enlightenment doesn't mean you stop experiencing negative emotions forever, no matter what happens in your life.

Enlightenment means you experience negative emotions without needing the experience to be anything else.

If someone close to you dies, you are going to cry as opposed to repress sadness.

In other words, there is a state of total acceptance and embrace of all that arises, good, bad and indifferent.

It's not a state of isolated affect or dissociation.

In fact, it's a state of richer emotions without repression.

The misery and trauma comes from NOT FULLY EXPERIENCING THE EMOTIONS AS THEY ARISE.

This is how people get psychologically stuck.

They can't feel their pain, their sadness or their anger, and instead turn to self-hatred or depression or chronic anxiety.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Haumea2018

[eputkonen]

15 hours ago, Tistepiste said:

@eputkonen I read your post again but can you explain me how you would go about traumatic events then.

What do you do if you don't want to carry traumatic events by denying them? What do you do? I mean the thought of the trauma comes up. And then? Acknowledge it? And then? How do you let go of it? How do you stop it from causing influence on you? How are you *free* of supressing it? What's the difference between surpressing it and not thinking about it?

 

By seeing through the ignorance and illusions of the mind. 

Only with understanding will you cease holding on...so you have to look at it, dive deeply into it, experience it completely, and in this understanding may dawn.  If you are holding and carrying, then you are already stuck due to ignorance and illusion.  So you can only investigate it and understand what you are doing.  You will know it is gone when the memory of it no longer holds an emotional charge.  At this point, you are not suppressing anything...but you are not trying to not think about it...instead it doesn't come to mind because it really is no longer charged.  The charge keeps it stuck...and then it recurs in thought and you feel you are carrying it.  Part of the process of loosing the charge is to fully experience it...because it was not fully experienced at the time and instead repressed, suppressed, escaped from, denied, etc.  It is in trying to get away from it that causes the stuckness.  The only way out is through...you have to go through it fully.  Fully embrace and accept the happening.

However, understanding can be such that you never hold on in the first place, never suppress it, and may not even see the happening as traumatic.

Ultimately, all this is tied to a "me" and "my story"...all suffering is based on a "me"...and so if the "me" shatters (due to enlightenment and seeing through the illusion of duality)...then there is no suffering and nothing to let go of (because it was never held onto in the first place).

[Tistepiste]

@eputkonen Ok, and by understanding, do you mean understand it intellectually? What if the situation doesn't make sense?

Eg. Someone you trust does bad to you and you can't understand why. 

You are left with a bad feeling and you can't seem to let it go

[eputkonen]

48 minutes ago, Tistepiste said:

@eputkonen Ok, and by understanding, do you mean understand it intellectually? What if the situation doesn't make sense?

Eg. Someone you trust does bad to you and you can't understand why. 

You are left with a bad feeling and you can't seem to let it go

 

Not intellectually...more in the gut or intuitively.  People claim to intellectually understand many things, but when the rubber hits the road in practice or day to day life...they show they understand nothing.  For this reason, I say intellectual understanding is BS.  What I am talking about isn't so much mental as kinesthetic...you feel the truth...and ignorance, illusion, and confusion disappears.  You see and understanding dawns.

I am pointing to a deep understanding...far deeper than superficial intellectual understanding.  You know in your bones.

Edited September 18, 2018 by eputkonen

[SoonHei]

yes@Haumea2018 . i agree  

 

enlightenment ~=~ to being pulled back into the couch-less couch of witnessing and watching your life play out on a TV-less TV in a way.

 

sadness/happiness/fights/war/rap/murder all will be displayed as various programs/shows on that TV

but as the audience/watcher of the show you can "enjoy" it while being involved in it to an extent but freedom is there each second just like if u watch a sad movie or horror movie - at the end of it all, you tell urself its just a movie/show/cartoon whatever 

[Tistepiste]

@eputkonen Amazing. If you ever have time I would like to talk to you about these kind of topics. 

Good day sir!

[Enlightenment]

If by suffering you mean like mentally created one(dissatisfaction, depressing thoughts etc.) then yes it ceases. If you mean something like aversion to strong physical pain - no unless you're sitting in Nibbana.