Enlightenment and suffering

[Tistepiste]

So I've read some things about enlightenment.

I can't really 100% grasp the fact that enlightenment ends all suffering, because you realise absolute truth and I guess your ego has no more reason to exist.

However.

What if your mother dies in front of you? Your sister dies a horrible death and your father rapes you?

I don't know, I know it's some crazy stuff but seriously. An enlightened person wouldn't be bothered by any of this? "Oh well, that happened, lol, what an experience, let's grab a nice tea now"

Probably I am totally off track on this. But yeah..

[Joseph Maynor]

Your suffering comes from thinking Experience is real.

[Bohzoe]

Well, I'm almost sure that no being is enlightened all the time. Many things, from stationary objects to my very own children are able to pull me back into the "loop" of my ego and sometimes I need to be there. But when I find myself pulling on the reigns too hard and life is becoming a lot, I can recall those moments of clarity (if they are even such) and reevaluate and stabilize. when you understand that they are just things happening and not BAD things happening you will understand that you don't need to be so chewed up over it.

 

[eputkonen]

1 hour ago, Tistepiste said:

So I've read some things about enlightenment.

I can't really 100% grasp the fact that enlightenment ends all suffering, because you realise absolute truth and I guess your ego has no more reason to exist.

However.

What if your mother dies in front of you? Your sister dies a horrible death and your father rapes you?

I don't know, I know it's some crazy stuff but seriously. An enlightened person wouldn't be bothered by any of this? "Oh well, that happened, lol, what an experience, let's grab a nice tea now"

Probably I am totally off track on this. But yeah..

 

Suffering is the mentally created agony...above and beyond just the physical pain experienced via the nerves of the body.  Suffering is self-created and self-inflicted.  No one likes to suffer and would rather not...the enlightened just understand how it is self inflicted and cease doing that to oneself.  Understanding is such that you just don't create misery for yourself...let alone resist or deny events and so carry the 'trauma' for years to come or the rest of life itself.  It is only in ignorance that we make ourselves miserable...and worse, we often don't realize we are doing it to ourselves and claim others are responsible.

It is not as flippant perhaps as "oh well, that happened, lol"...but what is the point of making yourself miserable after the horrible event has passed?  Why continue to create agony and suffering when it has passed? 

Will that in some way change what happened?  Of course not.

[Nahm]

@Tistepiste

The ego already doesn’t exist, and it takes a surprising amount of thinking, effort, and blame to remain convinced that it does, paradoxically isolating ourselves.

Try the perspective, - how is it that I create all of my suffering? Make an internal adventure out of it, go Sherlock Holmes on it - negative sensation arises, ask, how did I cause that? What is the false understanding which just led to that feeling?  That will reveal sensations which are typically avoided to maintain “feeling good”, and a pattern of conditional thinking supporting it. The sensations are not a problem, they’re just sensations, just feelings. Not embracing those sensations (afraid to feel ‘not good’, and avoiding/suppressing) is the suffering. After that work is done, an entirely new “feeling good” is discovered, a freedom. 

[Leo Gura]

@Tistepiste When you're playing a video game and your character, let's say Mario, dies or gets raped, is it a problem for you? Do you cry over it? Do you get angry? Do you seek revenge on the Koopas?

No, because you're aware it's just a game. If you take the game too seriously, you may get so mesmerized by it that you actually get angry at the Koopas.

Likewise with life.

The only problem is, you don't think life is a game. You think it is very real.

The operative word there is "think". Just because you think something is real does not make it so.

The logic of all this is very simple. The problem is, you're not being logical about life, you're highly biased by your fear of death. So your thinking is highly irrational and distorted by your preoccupation with living. You actually have to be insane to believe that life matters.

The trouble with insane people is, they don't know they're insane. If they did, they'd be sane!

Here's lookin' at you, kid  

[Rinne]

@Leo Gura Thanks for this Leo. ?

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The logic of all this is very simple. The problem is, you're not being logical about life, you're highly biased by your fear of death. So your thinking is highly irrational and distorted by your preoccupation with living. You actually have to be insane to believe that life matters.

The trouble with insane people is, they don't know they're insane. If they did, they'd be sane!

Yet, at times the deconstruction process seems very illogical - as if I am going insane.

Did I just suddenly appear in this living room? Have I appeared in this room countless times for a reason I am unaware of? Are all my memories merely programned into this mind? Are people just a figment of my imagination? Or are people living out their program? Are they unaware that their program even exists? Am I the only one aware of this?

Deeply questioning one’s existence and reality to the point that these questions become the experience - it can feel insane. Does recognizing that this is an insane mind render the person sane?

[Hellspeed]

Enlightenment is more than realizing absolute truth. Any uncharted territory in the body/mind, the being will translate that into Pain. Going into that Pain (the greatest opportunity), after that, the agony will translate into something very different. Pain is the greatest guide, why? Because the conscious mind did not explore the full body, due to social indoctrination. 

As shown in movies, in a higher state of being there is no more "remorse". Meaning, one will become one with the Great Change we see all around. The pain people talk about is just a condition in the general mass, a mindset. 

[Tistepiste]

@Leo Gura interesting.

So what happens if you are convicted of murder. Sentenced to jail, life long. It'd be like a "game over" so what then? Do you keep being alive for the game to naturally end? Or do you commit suicide? (What would you do in this situation?)

Secondly, I am just one of the characters of your game? Isn't it weird that every enlightened person sees the other person as not real? And you are just as not real as any other person? Hm. Don't think I'm ready for the truth yet.

[Barry J]

1 hour ago, Tistepiste said:

@Leo Gura interesting.

So what happens if you are convicted of murder. Sentenced to jail, life long. It'd be like a "game over" so what then? Do you keep being alive for the game to naturally end? Or do you commit suicide? (What would you do in this situation?)

Secondly, I am just one of the characters of your game? Isn't it weird that every enlightened person sees the other person as not real? And you are just as not real as any other person? Hm. Don't think I'm ready for the truth yet.

@Tistepiste  please read @eputkonen  Response it really hits the nail on the head

[Barry J]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Tistepiste When you're playing a video game and your character, let's say Mario, dies or gets raped, is it a problem for you? Do you cry over it? Do you get angry? Do you seek revenge on the Koopas?

No, because you're aware it's just a game. If you take the game too seriously, you may get so mesmerized by it that you actually get angry at the Koopas.

Likewise with life.

The only problem is, you don't think life is a game. You think it is very real.

The operative word there is "think". Just because you think something is real does not make it so.

The logic of all this is very simple. The problem is, you're not being logical about life, you're highly biased by your fear of death. So your thinking is highly irrational and distorted by your preoccupation with living. You actually have to be insane to believe that life matters.

The trouble with insane people is, they don't know they're insane. If they did, they'd be sane!

Here's lookin' at you, kid  

@Leo Gura Do you really think this analogy is helpful? I give it a 4/10 

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv What is sane? What is insane? What is the difference?

1 hour ago, Tistepiste said:

So what happens if you are convicted of murder. Sentenced to jail, life long. It'd be like a "game over" so what then? Do you keep being alive for the game to naturally end? Or do you commit suicide? (What would you do in this situation?)

Up to you.

I would try to stay out of jail.

But if got there, then I would meditate and do yoga.

Quote

Secondly, I am just one of the characters of your game? Isn't it weird that every enlightened person sees the other person as not real? And you are just as not real as any other person? Hm. Don't think I'm ready for the truth yet.

It is what it is. Who's to say what is "weird"?

8 minutes ago, Barry J said:

@Leo Gura Do you really think this analogy is helpful? I give it a 4/10 

It is what it is. Truth does not care how helpful you feel it is. After all, what you call helpful is nothing more than that which saves your imaginary hide.

[Barry J]

@Leo Gura The Truth does not care about anything but do you care about the people that post here?

[Leo Gura]

@Barry J Yes, which is why I take the time to write out thoughtful and clever analogies.

[Barry J]

@Leo Gura

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Barry J Yes, which is why I take the time to write out thoughtful and clever analogies.

So does the world need thoughtful and clever advice or does it need helpful advice? 

[Ingit]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Tistepiste When you're playing a video game and your character, let's say Mario, dies or gets raped, is it a problem for you? Do you cry over it? Do you get angry? Do you seek revenge on the Koopas?

No, because you're aware it's just a game. If you take the game too seriously, you may get so mesmerized by it that you actually get angry at the Koopas.

Likewise with life.

The only problem is, you don't think life is a game. You think it is very real.

The operative word there is "think". Just because you think something is real does not make it so.

The logic of all this is very simple. The problem is, you're not being logical about life, you're highly biased by your fear of death. So your thinking is highly irrational and distorted by your preoccupation with living. You actually have to be insane to believe that life matters.

The trouble with insane people is, they don't know they're insane. If they did, they'd be sane!

Here's lookin' at you, kid  

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Tistepiste

The ego already doesn’t exist, and it takes a surprising amount of thinking, effort, and blame to remain convinced that it does, paradoxically isolating ourselves.

Try the perspective, - how is it that I create all of my suffering? Make an internal adventure out of it, go Sherlock Holmes on it - negative sensation arises, ask, how did I cause that? What is the false understanding which just led to that feeling?  That will reveal sensations which are typically avoided to maintain “feeling good”, and a pattern of conditional thinking supporting it. The sensations are not a problem, they’re just sensations, just feelings. Not embracing those sensations (afraid to feel ‘not good’, and avoiding/suppressing) is the suffering. After that work is done, an entirely new “feeling good” is discovered, a freedom.    ??????

[SOUL]

10 hours ago, eputkonen said:

 

Suffering is the mentally created agony...above and beyond just the physical pain experienced via the nerves of the body.  Suffering is self-created and self-inflicted.  No one likes to suffer and would rather not...the enlightened just understand how it is self inflicted and cease doing that to oneself.  Understanding is such that you just don't create misery for yourself...let alone resist or deny events and so carry the 'trauma' for years to come or the rest of life itself.  It is only in ignorance that we make ourselves miserable...and worse, we often don't realize we are doing it to ourselves and claim others are responsible.

It is not as flippant perhaps as "oh well, that happened, lol"...but what is the point of making yourself miserable after the horrible event has passed?  Why continue to create agony and suffering when it has passed? 

Will that in some way change what happened?  Of course not.

@Tistepiste Keep reading this over and over until it becomes unforgettable, there isn't much more that needs to be said. It's this simple.

Well said @eputkonen

[Leo Gura]

@Barry J What is up with these false dichotomies? Both!

[Barry J]

@Leo Gura  Sorry, the dichotomies are my lazy use of language

I am just seeing inconsistencies in your responses. And I wonder who you are trying to appeal to. Most people would find the computer game Mario rape thing a bit off putting I would think. If you are leading horses to water so to speak