How to let go of resistence?

[Torkys]

The answer is Wu Wei. See my signature. 

[robdl]

6 minutes ago, who chit said:

Yep. A circle jerk of resistance.

And what negatively-positively reacts to resistance isn't aware it is also one and the same unitary movement as this resistance.  Thought is so sneaky, self-deceptive this way. Thought thinks it's an "I" that is standing separate from the resistance that needs to address the resistance, that dislikes the resistance, not realizing that this "I" is of the exact same movement.

Edited September 17, 2018 by robdl

[who chit]

6 minutes ago, robdl said:

And what negatively-positively reacts to resistance isn't aware it is also one and the same unitary movement as this resistance.  Thought is so sneaky, self-deceptive this way. Thought thinks it's an "I" that is standing separate from the resistance that needs to address the resistance, not realizing that this "I" is of the exact same movement.

[Nahm]

@who chit ????Exactly!

@robdl ??❤️

[Faceless]

Well said posts on resistance??

[Forestluv]

On 9/16/2018 at 0:40 PM, Pouya said:

I mean, when ever you're doing, your attention goes on something. An object or a thought or feelings and emotions, ect. It's focused on content. Is enlightenment some more content??

Actually I find resistance to EVERYTHING to make doing possible. How the f.ck can I stop resisting?

How can i see through content?

From lack of content ?

There are states in which there is just being. No thought or feeling. Just being. You haven't experienced it yet.

To me, it sounds like you are at a stage prior to the "observer + object" stage. Here, a person becomes so attached and identified to thoughts/feelings that they believe they are the thought/feeling. 

A few exercises to reach the "observer + object" stage

1. During meditation focus on your breath for grounding. Every time a thought appears, label it as "thought" and return to the breath. If you engage in thinking and "snap out of it", label it as "thinking" and return to the breath. If you get distracted by a feeling, label it as "feeling" and return to the breath. Do this over and over and over again. By labeling thoughts and feelings as thoughts and feelings - you are becoming an observer and telling the ego "I can observe you". . . The key is: do NOT be judgmental or critical of ANY thought or feeling. ALL thoughts/feelings are equivalent. A thought about being thirsty, a thought about having sex and a thought about torturing kittens are all equivalent. They ALL get labeled as "thought" and you return to the breath. The ego may throw out all sorts of thoughts/feelings that are juicy, tantalizing or disturbing. DON'T FALL FOR IT. The buddha himself had to deal with this. . . Over time, thoughts/feelings will lose their grip on you. You will start to experience the "observer + object" stage and you will get space from your truer self and the thoughts/feelings.

2. For 5 minutes (or however long you can handle it): every time you have a thought or feeling, turn it back on itself. The thought "I'm bored" becomes "A thought I'm bored is a thought I'm bored". The thought "This exercise is stupid" becomes "A thought this exercise is stupid is a thought this exercise is stupid". The thought "I feel anxiety" becomes "An anxious feeling is an anxious feeling". Do it for simple things as well "I want a soda" becomes "A thought I want soda is a thought I want soda". . . The mind wants to assign meaning to everything. This exercise neutralizes all thoughts and feelings. The mind HATES doing this. It wants to be in control and assign meaning. It makes assumptions and wants to be right. You will likely feel LOTS of resistance doing this. You are taking away the ego's power to control the narrative. By doing this you can break free of the attachment/identification with thoughts/feelings and enter the "observer + object" stage.

I made some rapid progress with these techniques. And it's not just for beginners. I see many spiritual seekers, including members on this board, have very sophisticated thoughts about spirituality that they are attached to - and are unaware of it.

 

[robdl]

51 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There are states in which there is just being. No thought or feeling. Just being. You haven't experienced it yet.

To me, it sounds like you are at a stage prior to the "observer + object" stage. Here, a person becomes so attached and identified to thoughts/feelings that they believe they are the thought/feeling. 

A few exercises to reach the "observer + object" stage

1. During meditation focus on your breath for grounding. Every time a thought appears, label it as "thought" and return to the breath. If you engage in thinking and "snap out of it", label it as "thinking" and return to the breath. If you get distracted by a feeling, label it as "feeling" and return to the breath. Do this over and over and over again. By labeling thoughts and feelings as thoughts and feelings - you are becoming an observer and telling the ego "I can observe you". . . The key is: do NOT be judgmental or critical of ANY thought or feeling. ALL thoughts/feelings are equivalent.

 

The tricky thing I see with this, which hopefully you can speak on as you're better versed in the method, is the fact that the motive-intent-desire-effort-doing to label thoughts is itself subtly thought in action. 

Intent-effort-doing don't stand apart from thought, but are one and the same movement as thought.  

The intent-effort-doing action to label thoughts/observe ego doesn't stand apart from ego, but is also sneakily one and the same as ego --- to put it another way.

So I'm curious if there's a way to label thoughts without reinforcing the "labeller"/"I"/"do-er"; without reinforcing this effort-intent movement of thought.

Thought-self/ego can sustain itself through a myriad of ways, including thought-labelling, because the division in thought between thinker/labeller/"I" and labelled thoughts is still in operation.

That's all thought needs, a thinker.  If thought can perpetuate a thinker, (through intent-effort-method (labelling)), it gets to self-sustain.

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by robdl

[Forestluv]

@robdl Yes, the "observer + object" stage is an early stage and it goes much deeper. As you wrote, there is still separation between observer and object. As well, thought labels are thoughts and one can get attached/identify with the "observer". That is, the meditator may think "Ahhh, I am not those thoughts, I am the observer"! Here, we reach the next stage of introspection of the observer.

The "observer + object" stage is immature, yet it can be extremely beneficial. 99% of the human population are attached to, and identify, with their thoughts. Being able to step outside and observe their thoughts without attachment / identification could be the most profound realization in a person's life. It's an awakening. 

Many meditation practitioners stay in the "observer + object" stage for years. Perhaps their whole life. Many gain deep insights. Many beautiful teachings have been written on this stage. Rupert Spira calls it "Enlightened Duality".

IME, the next stage beyond "observer + object" is much more subtle and difficult. I've never met anyone that bypassed the "observer + object" stage. (Without the use of psychedelics - which will fast forward a person beyond this stage in an hour). 

[robdl]

20 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@robdl Yes, the "observer + object" stage is an early stage and it goes much deeper. As you wrote, there is still separation between observer and object. As well, thought labels are thoughts and one can get attached/identify with the "observer". That is, the meditator may think "Ahhh, I am not those thoughts, I am the observer"! Here, we reach the next stage of introspection of the observer.

The "observer + object" stage is immature, yet it can be extremely beneficial. 99% of the human population are attached to, and identify, with their thoughts. Being able to step outside and observe their thoughts without attachment / identification could be the most profound realization in a person's life. It's an awakening. 

Many meditation practitioners stay in the "observer + object" stage for years. Perhaps their whole life. Many gain deep insights. Many beautiful teachings have been written on this stage. Rupert Spira calls in "Enlightened Duality".

 

Good breakdown - this is good for people to know/have context.

Edited September 17, 2018 by robdl

[InfinitePotential]

Completely agree with a lot of these replies, including the resistance stuff and the “observer + object” stage. 

Another strategy, perhaps after some time focusing on breath, dispassionately labeling sensations and becoming grounded, is to become completely disinterested in all experience. You are clearly realizing the limitations of it — it’s all just content. It’s like, the next thought you have isn’t going to figure everything out for you, the next experience you have isn’t going to satisfy and fulfill you. Take a break from being caught up in your experience, your life story and circumstances, and completely relax your focus and attention and don’t place it on anything in particular. There’s a time for analytical thinking and planning, and for focus and effort but now is not the time. Just sit there and be.

And once you notice you’re caught up in an aspect of your experience, clenching and contracting your awareness on it, relax your attention (kind of like a muscle), gently ignore it and have an attitude of thanks but no thanks, right now I am not interested in anything at all. I have no wants or desires, there’s nothing to do but just sit here and effortlessly be. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by InfinitePotential

[Solace]

The opposite to resistance is surrender. Surrender is not stopping the flow of anything, but allowing your thoughts, allowing your feelings, to be just as they are. Surrender to me does require effort to be experienced, for our mind is so used to being lost in thoughts, that we first need to get our awareness out of those stories. Then we must focus our awareness on something ever-present about ourselves, who we truly are. You can choose the breathe, the Love in your Heart, or the awareness to focus on. In your focus surrender will effortlessly happen.

Namaste.

[Pouya]

On 9/17/2018 at 9:07 PM, robdl said:

Thought/self/"I" doesn't know how to be; thought only knows how to perpetuate its own movement, which is through more thought; more doing.

Thought/self/"I" is always craving a "how to" -- as "how" implies a method, effort, knowledge, or doing.

But the catch is that the methods, efforts, knowlege, or doing used becomes the very perpetuation of thought-self itself. 

Thought-self is very sneaky this way.  It wants to try, to do, to exert, to apply -- as these are the very activities that sustain its movement.    Thought likes to avoid being, and instead, compulsively seeks more knowledge, more how-to's --- i.e. perpetuating itself through more thought/doing.

So if we can't exert or try, can we be effortlessly, passively aware?  That is what you may want to investigate. 

Can there be attention that has no goal, no intent, no effort? Can thoughts be watched without bias, motive, control, or choice? 

Without any prior beliefs, conclusions, or expectations that condition how the thoughts are watched?

If the desire to control arises, can there be passive awareness of this momentary, fleeting desire? 

***As long as there is an "I" that assumes it is the "thinker" of its thoughts, there will naturally be the compulsion to want to control-shape thought, to do something about thought.***

Through unconditioned awareness, it can be observed that the "self"/"I" is just made out of thought-experience-memory.  It can be observed that thought and self are a unitary movement; no division between thinker and thoughts.  It's a different quality of observation.  Observation with no conditioned, personal lens through which thought is viewed.

 

 

See.. the "thing" that is talking and writing right now is the "I". Maybe this is not about words and sounds. As the mind is struggled/entertained by all these content, it can't see beyond content i guess.

I see i am very disidentified myself with many things, I supposed myself as something that can do And be. Maybe it can't?

I'll try to contemplate on these points. Thanks alot.

On 9/17/2018 at 9:07 PM, Faceless said:

Perhaps understanding what is resistance and what is not resistance would be worth exploring..

Can we understand the nature of resistance and how this subtle movement of fear manifests in our daily life? 

Can there be an awareness to that understanding of resistance in movement? 

Yeah, I have a lot of resistance to many things, like studying. As i moralize about studying as being "good", I still have resistance towards it. I'll consider this.

[Pouya]

@who chit @robdl

That was a mind fuck. I am resisting the resistance to let go of it, but it makes it stick even more .-.

And this "I" problem is very mind boggling. Languege sucks at these topics. "I" have created an secondary ego to eliminate that. So I can sustain myself. If this "I" is a creation of the mind, what is there that can watch these as a process happening? Then here i am at the Observer/Watcher trap.

[Pouya]

Thank you everyone for your great posts

Totally relaxing the body-mind

Letting thoughts and feeling come and go, no involvement

Letting my resistance be. No involvement.

Completely surrendering my life, my vision for the future, my memory of  the past and lastly, myself. (The one who observed these and tried to not get involved)

Now this might seems like I'm kinda formulating it and getting lost in content but what can I do with a dualistic language?

 

[robdl]

12 minutes ago, Pouya said:

 

 If this "I" is a creation of the mind, what is there that can watch these as a process happening? Then here i am at the Observer/Watcher trap.

Some people call it the Witness.  Some people call it Observation Without the "Observer."  Some call it Unconditional Observation.

There's watching, but it's not through the lens of conditioning-bias-motive (the "I") --- the lens that actually feeds thinking and is one and the same as the thinking.

Watching thought with no "I"-lens.

[robdl]

@Pouya  If thought is unconditionally observed --- no "I"-lens that is corrupting-driving it ---  the content of "I" will spill out to merge with the flow of thought.  The self-imagery-experiences-memory-knowledge that constitute the "I" will be observable along with the rest of thought.   Thought and self observed as a single, unitary movement.   That is the meaning of the Observer is the Observed.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

@Pouya do we realize that we regularly observe thought through the thought-fragment of "I"?  The "I" which steers, chooses, and reacts to thought in accordance with its own content (memory, desire, effort-intent, etc.)?

So if thought is observed with no choosing, effort, desire, or pre-conclusions, then is thought being observed in a free way, free of the "I"-lens?  Observation without the "Observer"?  That is what can be investigated.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

41 minutes ago, Pouya said:

@who chit @robdl

That was a mind fuck. I am resisting the resistance to let go of it, but it makes it stick even more .-.

 

The "I" IS the resistance.  That is why it's so confusing and frustrating.  Because an "I" (thought fragment) keeps dividing itself from the "resistance" and either resists-fears it or wishes to do something about it (let go of it, surrender, etc.), but the "resistance" and "I" are one and the same movement.

So when the "I" and "resistance" are observed as a unitary movement, then where is the resistance? Is there any longer an "I" that is trying to do something about the resistance?  If there is no divison between "I" and "resistance," then is there conflict?

[Pouya]

1 minute ago, robdl said:

The "I" IS the resistance.  That is why it's so confusing and frustrating.  Because an "I" (thought fragment) keeps dividing itself from the "resistance" and either resists-fears it or wishes to do something about it (let go of it, surrender, etc.), but the "resistance" and "I" are one and the same movement.

So when the "I" and "resistance" are observed as a unitary movement, then where is the resistance? Is there any longer an "I" that is trying to do something about the resistance?  If there is no divison between "I" and "resistance," then is there conflict?

If I and resistance are one, then... there is no one experiencing resistance?? It's just there?

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, robdl said:

If there is no divison between "I" and "resistance," then is there conflict?

Key question!!!...?

Is there resistance, which implies conflict, if there is no division between “the me” and what that “me” resists? 

If there is only a movement of resistance, what other “thing” is present to cause conflict-opposition? 

It takes two for there to be something to conflict-oppose, make for a dispute. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Faceless