James Randi $1,000,000 Challenge

[Finland3286]

Are psychic and supernatural phenomena real? 

James Randi set up a challenge where if someone could demonstrate some supernatural phenomena that they would win $1,000,000. I haven't really delved into the rules or regulations of the testing conditions of this challenge but I would just like to hear what other people think about this. Although, it seems like there is quite a bit of bickering back and forth about whether or not this testing was "fair" or not. 

But if this testing was "fair" wouldn't someone have taken him up on the deal and won if psychic and supernatural phenomena were real? Maybe if some enlightened yogi or guru possessed some of these abilities but didn't care about the money wouldn't they have taken up the challenge to then use the money to do something productive or beneficial for the world? (Considering they are not off in a cave somewhere and don't know anything about this challenge!). Take astral projection as an example, if this was real couldn't you have someone write some numbers or letters on a paper and put it behind some door in in a room and then have the person claiming this ability astral project and just go over to the paper and then recite what was written on it? 

Although, maybe this test was unfair and rigged somehow but I would like to hear what some others on the forum think about this kind of thing. 

 

[Leo Gura]

It's a silly challenge because you are being asked to provide material proof for immaterial phenomena to the satisfaction of people locked in a hardcore materialist paradigm.

The issue isn't the proof, but changing what you consider to be proof. Criteria for proof are always paradigm-dependent.

The paradigm is the problem, not the proof.

You want proof of paranormal? Eat 30 grams of dried mushrooms.

Just be careful what you wish for. You might get it 

[Nahm]

@Finland3286

Maybe the Randi test is a symbol, a question, asking you, if you want any paranormal in your reality. 

[Finland3286]

@Leo Gura I see what your saying but what about that astral projection example I gave? Wouldn't that work to prove them wrong if astral projection is a real thing and worked that way?

I've watched videos on astral projection and people talking about what they have done and it seems like they could remember some numbers or letters on a piece of paper or something like that. I don't want to just completely brush it off though because the first time I tried it I really felt like I was going to do it but I got scared of what my friend told me and I backed off. Ever since then I never got to that point because there might be some fear preventing me from going through with it. 

Also maybe that mushroom idea isn't too bad besides the 30 grams part lol .

[Finland3286]

@Nahm Maybe, but I don't really look at things in that perspective. Although, if it's out there and real I feel inclined to find out about it.

[Leo Gura]

@Finland3286 Lots of remote viewing experiments have been done by various teams and the results are highly positive and beyond statistical doubt. Remote viewing is NEVER a 100% certain phenomena and it does not work the way materialists want it to work. It is probablisitic and hazy.

You're missing the depth of this problem: no amount of evidence can convince a closed mind. Period.

You can teach yourself astral projection. Bunch of how-to books available for it. It is a settled matter for those who care to know it. The only people who doubt it are the ones who are closedminded and inexperienced.

[lmfao]

@Finland3286 I don't think you're gonna get "proof" of the paranormal from mushrooms. I have no clue whether paranormal phenomena are real and I haven't taken psychedelics. The only thing I see mushrooms doing is make you more open minded about your experience in general and make you question whether a materialistic/rationalist view of the world is something you must hold on to. I'm guessing an experience with mushrooms can really make you come into contact with the "hard problem of consciousness" and so you question how your perception exists/works.

And as far as psychich phenomena go I'm skeptical that they exist like you (I think its possible they exist though, but it really depends on how you want to define this term). Leo seems to be criticising materlistists for failing to pick up on it but if the psychic powers have an effect on the "external world" (things which are in view from the perspective of multiple conciousnessess, e.g. A chair in a room) which is observable, then the researchers should be able to observe it.

If the existence of this stuff was hazy and probabilistic but still had an effect observable to both the doer and other people then I don't see why psychic phenomena would be denied in mainstream science. In what way could psychic phenomena have an impact on an "external world" not able to be verified by scientists? Are the scientists bad at their job (and are not recognizing the statistics Leo is citing)? Or are we to say that "psychic phenomena" have no impact on an external world? In which case the materlistic paradigm fails? And if the phenomena don't involve the exchange information/energy in the external world, then what is the definition for such a phenomena? 

 

[Leo Gura]

@lmfao It has already been verified to death! The problem is no serious person wants to accept it.

Science is not about to admit that their entire materialist framework is a house of cards.

You may as well be asking the Catholic Church to admit it's full of shit. It's not going to do that! Collective ego doesn't give a fuck about truth, it cares about self-preservation.

You accept science as though it were the word of God without realizing that in reality it's just a giant corrupt bureaucracy run by conservative old men who have children to feed and reputations to maintain. Same as the church.

Wake up!

Notice, the only reason you have scientific truths in your head at all is because it has been told to you by some old man in a position of power, whom you gullibly believed. If an old man in a position of power does not tell you it, how the hell will you ever know about it?? Through YT ads? Through CNN? Through Facebook? Where are you getting your information? Have you realized yet that all mainstream sources of information are propaganda channels for the collective stage Orange ego? You've lived inside an Orange echo-chamber your whole life! You are like a factory cow that's never seen real grass or sunshine a day in your life. If you ever met a real cow who told you about grass and sunshine, you'd think that cow was crazy. But of course the crazy one is you.

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@lmfao It has already been verified to death! The problem is no serious person wants to accept it.

Science is not about to admit that their entire materialist framework is a house cards.

You may as well be asking the Catholic Church to admit it's full of shit. It's not going to do that! Collective ego doesn't give a fuck about truth, it cares about self-preservation.

You accept science as though it were the word of God without realizing that in reality it's just a giant corrupt bureaucracy run by conservative old men who have children to feed and reputations to maintain. Same as the church.

Wake up!

Yeah that's very true actually, science as it is practiced isn't a wholehearted search for truth. It makes money. Information/logic which would destroy the current paradigm would be twisted and resisted. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@lmfao Notice, the only reason you have scientific truths in your head at all is because it has been told to you by some old man in a position of power, whom you gullibly believed. If an old man in a position of power does not tell you it, how the hell will you ever know about it?? Through YT ads? Through CNN? Through Facebook? Where are you getting your information? Have you realized yet that all mainstream sources of information are propaganda channels for the collective stage Orange ego? You've lived inside an Orange echo-chamber your whole life! You are like a factory cow that's never seen real grass or sunshine a day in your life. If you ever met a real cow who told you about grass and sunshine, you'd think that cow was crazy. But of course the crazy one is you.

That's so true in general lol about science, it is rare that you derive a "truth" for yourself. Loads of beliefs I have which I just take for granted from other people. People who are philosophically inquisitive about metaphysics, even if they aren't into consciousness work, can start to "see through" science. People who aren't into consciousness work will probably lose track of what reality really is, the present moment. Even though I would say that I was this type of person before doing consciousness work, I remember watching your video on true vs false skepticism. At multiple times in the video I would reflexively think "what the hell is this guy saying", I would then pause think about the thing like 3-4 times and realise that I couldn't fault you and you were "right". I feel like logically speaking there is no proof that logic will tell you the truth about anything. 

And you're completely right about mainstream sources being an orange propaganda machine. It's something I forget, the propaganda is too hypnotising and I'm still in orange probs. On top of whatever metaphysics are associated with science, the orange view of the world gives you a unsuccessful method for being happy as well lol.  

I need to become woke like squidward

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by lmfao

[SoonHei]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It has already been verified to death! The problem is no serious person wants to accept it.

Science is not about to admit that their entire materialist framework is a house cards.

You may as well be asking the Catholic Church to admit it's full of shit. It's not going to do that! Collective ego doesn't give a fuck about truth, it cares about self-preservation.

You accept science as though it were the word of God without realizing that in reality it's just a giant corrupt bureaucracy run by conservative old men who have children to feed and reputations to maintain. Same as the church.

Wake up!

Notice, the only reason you have scientific truths in your head at all is because it has been told to you by some old man in a position of power, whom you gullibly believed. If an old man in a position of power does not tell you it, how the hell will you ever know about it?? Through YT ads? Through CNN? Through Facebook? Where are you getting your information? Have you realized yet that all mainstream sources of information are propaganda channels for the collective stage Orange ego? You've lived inside an Orange echo-chamber your whole life! You are like a factory cow that's never seen real grass or sunshine a day in your life. If you ever met a real cow who told you about grass and sunshine, you'd think that cow was crazy. But of course the crazy one is you.

This entire thing is so powerful and true

 

Wow