Spiritual Autolysis

[Kelley White]

This is basic thing to understand I believe. I don't know how to answer this question, but I think that it's a very good place to start your own enquiry, SA or whatever. By trying to dissect this question you will actually need to look at your early life and see why you do things the way you do.

Basically any question can become a star with these five rules (probably we can boil them down but we can always do it later):

• inward - think for myself aka I am my own judge and I don't give a fuck about Eckhart Tolle/<put any guru/person you are looking up to here> because his words are not designed to help me, he just spewing his opinions and he is in no way superior to me. I don't care about what any teacher say because it's my life and CLOCK IS TICKING
• radical fucking honesty!
• the only thing I have is mine awareness no matter where I am and what I will achieve - sights, sounds, smell, taste, thoughts, emotions, feelings
• spirit of a warrior - I can die doing this and so the fuck what, I am going to do this anyway no matter what until I will get sense of it all
• question all the rules!

 

Now having that we can do simple example: "I have an iPhone. Ok. Why do I have an iPhone? (start of SA)"

Now I could easily spent a few minutes/hours in order to answer this simple question, no matter how many influences in my decision I include and describe blah. I could go on to let's say my affluenza syndrome or something like that.

 

I believe this is not important at all and totally missing the point of SA because you don't have enough energy in order to make this process effortless so to speak!

As I'm fleshing this out for myself here, I come to this conclusion - the point is to find the question/concept/topic/thought/emotion in us we actually fear of losing (attachment), which is also currently present in our lives and which is genuinely pissing us (insight) off so we will be able to achieve leverage point where we will go fight or flight and say "fuck it, if I'm bullshiting myself here I'm going to consider the following":

• change
• put myself on the line
• put my relationship on the line
• quit my job
• go for the whale!
• commit suicide (why the hell live fake life where I'm spending 20 hours on thinking about stuff and not experiencing it?/I can die any moment, why not pull the trigger? etc.)
• live in supermarket dumpster and fight with rats for scraps (stolen from Mckenna ;))
• say to my mother/father/brother/sister/spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/friend 1/friend 2/... what I honestly think about them
• telling people about what I think about myself 
• send out message to every girl/men I tried to date how I manipulated her/him - for example used abundance in order to get them and don't care here about repercussions and our "safe zone" I can always come back to
• go to super dark forest at night after watching horror movie while knowing that awareness is mine, universe is doing stuff for me so it can show actual hologram of a demon which will try to kill me blah
• anything else which will release enough energy in order to make our fearful inner child to jump of the cliff and release the teller/imagined controlled entity which believes that exists

IMPORTANT - you gotta consider these things seriously. That means like you would really decided to do them without actually doing them  So some can be on paper (you can write down what you would say to your friends without sending letters) and some you can actually do (going into the dark forest or saying how you were inauthentic towards someone).

What actually comes out of it is out of your control because we cannot know if we can control ourselves. This is going to make it more serious. And of course I don't want anyone to commit an actual suicide! It's just stuff for grown ups.

Now as you probably see writing this stuff is very useful to me! It's also a form of spiritual autolysis. I needed to think about my own life and where I can make progress and improve processes I'm implementing. That's why I found recently that being on any forums and spewing out opinions in concise manner might be very helpful. On the other hand it probably won't be helpful to you because it's my perspective and yours is completely different (see the rules)!

Edited 16 minutes ago by mkieblesz

 

I have to say by direct observation and experience thus far, by doing that self inquiry on why I did certain things and formulated certain belief structures, I could as you say, see why I defaulted to certain behavior patterns.  

 

Basically any question can become a star with these five rules (probably we can boil them down but we can always do it later):

• inward - think for myself aka I am my own judge and I don't give a fuck about Eckhart Tolle/<put any guru/person you are looking up to here> because his words are not designed to help me, he just spewing his opinions and he is in no way superior to me. I don't care about what any teacher say because it's my life and CLOCK IS TICKING
• radical fucking honesty!
• the only thing I have is mine awareness no matter where I am and what I will achieve - sights, sounds, smell, taste, thoughts, emotions, feelings
• spirit of a warrior - I can die doing this and so the fuck what, I am going to do this anyway no matter what until I will get sense of it all
• question all the rules!

I wholly concur with you there.

 

So I did this over the weekend.  I thought I am literally creating my own sit and spin tring to create some literary genius work for external validation to attain validation for pain which in fact I then have to admit is for punishment on some level of those I feel wronged me.   So writing, which was fun and healing became work.  It became stress which meant not healing, which meant failure.  I really had some core things going on related to being taught:

ordinary = bad

Average = disappointing

Mistakes are punished

Objectification

Wanting was being selfish and selfish was bad.

Anything less than perfection is bad. 

So I can't just write for me; I have to be Proust or I'm a bad writer.  Talk about setting oneself up for failure.  I still actually have to laugh when I really see how silly it all is.  If I died tomorrow who cares I don't have a book published or that I wasn't Proust?  It won't matter to me, but here I am like its the only solution to happiness.  Therein lies the issue.  Literally LIES.  

I used to do this type of sharing on Facebook and it was for healing and then others resonated with it.  Then it became interconnected with my ex and animation, Facebook became a part of the triggers versus now a place of refuge with friends.  This forum has actually helped me more in the past two days than most of the social media I've been engaged in for the past six months with the exception of one platform which just forces you to feel.  That platform however is not interactive so I don't get feedback and there is not engagement so it serves a different function.

Now that last thing you said?  I don't get.  I over personalize so I always try to put myself in the shoes of the other individual.  I suspect however the flaw in my thinking is that I have also brought my compassion and empathy to the equation as assumptive which may wholly be lacking in the other individual.  That's a boundary issue and not learning healthy boundaries due to early child hood sexual abuse.  

I do however find the views of others helpful which is why I like interactive threads like this versus just only expository journalism or poetry.   I don't like to talk or write at as much as I like to interact with, thus learning becomes cooperative by sharing our experience and observations.    So no, I don't see that in the rules equation but perhaps that means I am questioning the rules?LOL

 

[jjer94]

6 hours ago, Kelley White said:

Today I was able to radically change my behavior.  When I woke up at three rather than going to social media I went to Coursera and the creativity class.  I wrote.  I went back to sleep.  Than I came here rather than going to social media.  I may read  a book, I may write, I may ignore social media all day today.  To whom do I owe what, when and and why?  I really agree it does seem to feel like a growing up process.  Perhaps  trauma gets us stuck in a early development cognition pattern?  Any thoughts? 

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you should do one thing over another, when you've probably have been doing that most of your life, and it hasn't worked. This quote explains the phenomenon well:

"Anytime you’re practicing renunciation, you’re deluded. How about that! You’re deluded. What are you renouncing? Anytime you renounce something, you are tied forever to the thing you renounce...

The only way to get out of this is to see through it. Don’t renounce it, see through it. Understand its true value and you won’t need to renounce it; it will just drop from your hands."

-Tony de Mello

Don't try to convince yourself that social media or any of the things you think are 'distractions' are bad just because some people say they are. Instead, understand why you feel so drawn towards these distractions. What do you get from them? Go on Facebook and ask yourself that question. Be honest with yourself. Let yourself indulge, and then figure out why you feel so inclined to indulge. When you understand the magic trick for what it is, it won't be so exciting for you anymore.

Edited February 9, 2016 by jjer94

[Kelley White]

Hi JJer94.  Thank you for sharing your observations.  I appreciate your engagement.

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you should do one thing over another, when you've probably have been doing that most of your life, and it hasn't worked. This quote explains the phenomenon well:

"Anytime you’re practicing renunciation, you’re deluded. How about that! You’re deluded. What are you renouncing? Anytime you renounce something, you are tied forever to the thing you renounce...

The only way to get out of this is to see through it. Don’t renounce it, see through it. Understand its true value and you won’t need to renounce it; it will just drop from your hands."

-Tony de Mello

Don't try to convince yourself that social media or any of the things you think are 'distractions' are bad just because some people say they are. Instead, understand why you feel so drawn towards these distractions. What do you get from them? Go on Facebook and ask yourself that question. Be honest with yourself. Let yourself indulge, and then figure out why you feel so inclined to indulge. When you understand the magic trick for what it is, it won't be so exciting for you anymore.

 

To be honest, what I get from them might sound odd to most folks. LOL  I observe patterns.  I find the serentypical pulse of the cosmic consciousness which lets me see my subtle positives and my more subconscious negatives.  Its a looking glass of the light and the shadow.  (My wee theory) 

Now we will just default to I'm a poet.  There is a fine line between poetic genius and insanity. LOL  I think I flirt with the line?  That said, the social media has been "the should."  Writing a book has become "the should."  I suspect after more inquiry I'm seeking absolution for crimes I've perceived I've committed or been unjustly accused of committing and accepted as a part of the perpetual martyr thing.  LOL    So really you see a poet processing out loud.  

If I was going to go on social media, I would go onto Weare8.  Its in beta and its more full of creative eclectic positive people.  While there is not much interaction there is an environment that provokes feeling and that feeling leads to release and healing and creative inspiration.   Even that is sometimes a trigger and so my therapist and I have actually agreed limiting social media use right now, as I prepare for EMDR, is optimal. 

Facebook is a trigger for me.  I met my husband on Facebook.   I lost friends, its not fun, its work.  It still feels unjust and like another horrible thing happened and it was my circus and my monkeys in public.   The other day if I had gone to Facebook when I was triggered, twitter when I was triggered, I t would have been worse; I would have focused on the negative and accused myself with it; my default.   So when in shadow, one sees the shadow.  (Again, my wee observation to date.)

Its not enjoyable like in the past. Its managing cats while chasing sad rabbits.     So frankly I've been working fourteen plus hours a day, going in circles.  

I'm not certain I agree with renunciation means delusion.  To renounce use of opiates when one is an addict is healthy for example.   I don't know if that is a "true" statement or not?   No disrespect to Tony De Milo but I would have to do some meme muckery with that.   Do we know that renunciation always is delusional?  Do we really know that is true?  I suspect it more true if we face our inauthentic issues we find our core issues?

Once I identify that I am drawn to a distraction, then perhaps I can focus more on the core issue by eliminating distractions which only further distract from me finding the core issues versus an activity like this which forces me to more actively engage in that self inquiry with support and sound reality checks? 

I think I arrived at that point this morning.  Rather than looking at negative media I did a creativity test and had more fun than I've had in awhile.  I like sharing positive outcomes as well as negative struggles, I think that allows others to benefit as well.

Thank you so much for your comment and I look forward to any response you may have.

 

[Ben]

22 hours ago, aurum said:

I'm familiar with Adyashanti but not this technique. Could you give a brief description?

You ask a question, say, "what are thoughts?" And then you only write what you competely and 100% know is true about the topic. 

- thoughts are in my mind 

- thoughts are abstractions 

- I am aware of thoughts 

- thoughts are a part of awareness 

- awareness is everything 

- I am 

it would usually take more steps, but it's just an example. Basically the core truth of all questions is "I am", however you have to arrive at this by going through the process yourself to gain any benefit from it. You'll hit a wall with some things eventually and your awareness just won't go any further, for this you just sit at this wall of ignorance and eventually the next step is revealed. 

 

 

 

 

[abrakamowse]

I am reading Mc Kenna and he's awesome. And this thread is really helpful. It should be pinned on top of all threads.

[Leo Gura]

What you guys are discussing is letting go of one's personal story. This is a common first-obstacle in doing self-inquiry because there's so much psychological baggage from the past that you need to purge it before you can sit down and dig into the existential questions of who and what you are.

Some people have a very deep personal life story that they are identified with, and that might require a long process to purge. It might also be very emotionally painful. Especially you have a rocky childhood, abuse, violence, additions, etc.

Other people easily detach from their life story and don't need so much painful purging. They can go straight to the existential questions.

Which is why people's enlightenment journeys can vary greatly. And why no one technique is best for all.

[Kindle]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a common first-obstacle in doing self-inquiry because there's so much psychological baggage from the past that you need to purge it before you can sit down and dig into the existential questions of who and what you are.

How exactly does the process of purging go? 

Do you sit down and think about the past and try to forget everything? 

[RAX]

@aurum thanks for sharing, I'll check it out.

[WelcometoReality]

This is probably the best tool I've seen for enlightenment work.

The ego: But all this deconstruction makes me feel so bad and meditating makes me feel good. I should probably stick to meditation.

[Kindle]

@Leo Gura is Enlightement a moment or a gradual process? 

I mean do peoples become enlightenment like in a second or is it a process over years?

[jjer94]

@Kelley White Shoot! Didn't get a notification when you replied. 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Quote

Once I identify that I am drawn to a distraction, then perhaps I can focus more on the core issue by eliminating distractions which only further distract from me finding the core issues versus an activity like this which forces me to more actively engage in that self inquiry with support and sound reality checks? 

The thing is, when you say, "I am giving up ______", you're still regarding it as important. If you didn't regard it as important, it would be a non-issue; the problem would just resolve itself. But by renouncing yourself, you're trying to brute force your way out of your neuroses, and what often happens is that the problem comes back in full force.

Take an overweight person for example. They have the neurotic need to eat junk food all the time. Do you actually think that cutting donuts out of their diet will cure them completely? No, of course not. They would merely be changing their external circumstances, when the problem is internal. They give importance to donuts. Maybe it's because they taste good. Maybe it's because they remind the person of their childhood. Maybe it's to mask another deeper neurosis. Oftentimes what happens when an overweight person tries to eat healthy for a while is that they accidentally start eating junk again and gain twice as much weight. 

If you haven't seen Leo's new video on fake growth vs. real growth, I suggest you do; it ties exactly into what I'm talking about. 

So now let's move to you as the example. You're trying to cut your time on Facebook and all these other distractions. But by cutting them out, you're resisting your natural tendencies, and while you may see progress now, it'll only make things worse in the long run. That's just my opinion. A couple years ago I quit video games cold turkey after being an addict for more than a decade, and it was a year later that I picked up the habit again. These neuroses will always come back to bite you in the ass...unless you look inside yourself face them directly. Why are these distractions so important to you? What are you getting out of them? Once you understand that the importance you give to these things are illusory, and you consciously see through it every day, eventually the neuroses will cease on their own. That's what I did with the video games, and my addiction is gone.

Let's use another analogy. When a magician does a magic trick for you, you're captivated. You want to see it again and again. It seems like literal magic because you don't know how he does it. But then you decide to sneak up on stage, look under the tablecloth...and there's a trapdoor. Now you know how the magic trick works. Will you still be captivated when he does the trick again? Not likely, because you know how it works. Once you understand how the magic trick works, you won't be so drawn to it.

Your addiction to distractions are like magic tricks. All you need to do is look under the tablecloth, see what's going on under the surface, and look for that trapdoor. Then you will no longer be so drawn to them. Are you running away from something by partaking in distractions? Do you secretly believe that you need them to be happy? Are you afraid that you will be worthless if you don't partake in them? All hypothetical questions, gateways to exploring your inner realm. I'm warning you though, looking inward can be painful work. You never know what you'll uncover...

All the best, Kelley!

 

[Kelley White]

Hahaha You see @jjer94, I'm Alice.  I always chase rabbits first. LOL

16 hours ago, jjer94 said:

If you haven't seen Leo's new video on fake growth vs. real growth, I suggest you do; it ties exactly into what I'm talking about. 

See, I had to go out and socialize and live the video last week, then I got to come to the conclusion myself, THEN I stumbled on that video of Leo's this morning.  Ironically enough I am listening to the rest of it now as I'm listening right now as I respond to your suggestion to listen to it.    Such is my little treasure hunt.

 

16 hours ago, jjer94 said:

These neuroses will always come back to bite you in the ass...unless you look inside yourself face them directly. Why are these distractions so important to you? What are you getting out of them? Once you understand that the importance you give to these things are illusory, and you consciously see through it every day, eventually the neuroses will cease on their own. That's what I did with the video games, and my addiction is gone.

BINGO!

 

16 hours ago, jjer94 said:

Are you running away from something by partaking in distractions? Do you secretly believe that you need them to be happy? Are you afraid that you will be worthless if you don't partake in them?

YES!  I was, may partially still be?  Its in flux? LOL

 

16 hours ago, jjer94 said:

I'm warning you though, looking inward can be painful work. You never know what you'll uncover...

YES!  OUCH but laughter, resolution and empowerment too!

Awesome response and thank you.   A no bullshit matrix, respect.

[Spiritual Warrior]

@Kelley White @jjer94 thank you both for your contributions in this thread. I feel that I learned some about what it takes to do serious Spiritual Autolysis work. I will use some of your insights as guidance in my journey. Cheers.