Is every men's life worth the same?

[Ryan_047]

If yes,why?

I fundamentally believe that the life of a person who is pushing humanity forward is worth more than the life of a serial killer who's psyche is so destroyed that he'll never recover and live a normal life as a functioning member of the society.The same applies to the animal kingdom.The life of a dying lion is not worth more than the life of a newly born lion.

This might seem like an evil and selfish thing to believe,and I don't contradict that.However,this is where I am in my development and I need to be honest with myself and not try to judge my beliefs as being bad.This question is peeking my interest and I just can't twist my mind around it.I'm orange-green for the record.

Will I only be able to understand why every life is worth the same only when I'll have enlightenment experiences or could I rationalize and truly understand it through thought? 

[PsiloPutty]

Assigning value to lives is very subjective and perspective-dependent. To me, my friend's life may be more important than yours, but from your mom's perspective, it's the other way around. It all depends on who you ask, and if that's the case, then we're all equal. 

To the lion pride, the healthy baby is worth more than the dying adult, but ask the hyenas and they'd see it the other way around. Perspective.

[Forestluv]

"Is every person's life worth the same?"

There are multiple answers that can be true - depending on the perspective. I could give you an answer from a relative perspective, a rational perspective or an either / or perspective. To me, a relative perspective seems most appropriate for this question.

"Worth" is a relative term. Each person has their own idea of what "worth" means. There is no absolutely true answer to your question.

Now, here is where so much struggling, suffering and conflict comes into play. Imagine a person has a clear idea of what "worth" means, yet is unaware that this meaning is relative to her.  She views it as an absolute truth - that her belief is universally true. She may seek to be with other people that hold a similar view as hers (which only pulls her further away from seeing it is only a relative truth). She may also get into conflict with people that have a different view. She may try to convince them her view is correct. She may argue. 

The human mind has a tendency to think in absolute terms. A relative mode of thinking can be very unpalatable to the self. Many minds suffer terribly in conflict because it will not let go and view things from a relativistic perspective. The self may become attached to, and identify, with beliefs. Understanding relative thinking can be an uncomfortable process, yet there is enormous freedom on the other side.

You will likely get a variety of answers to your question. Members may debate about who has the "right" answer. See if you can notice how each answer is true in a relative sense. 

[PsiloPutty]

@Caterpillar  Would you rather see your best friend die or an elderly Chinese street woman? If you care one way or another, and I suspect you do, it's because you're assigning worth.    

[PsiloPutty]

Yep, that's the dualism of things like worth and fear. They exist in a personal sense and from a personal perspective, but once we go outside of our own heads, *poof* it's gone.   

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

If I had to choose between killing Hitler or killing Ghandi, I wouldn't probably say to myself: "Hmm, value and worth is a thought, it doesn't really exist so I have no clue whom should I kill". I would pull the trigger directly to that awful Jewish hater

Yes, it is true that value is a thought and it doesn't really exist. But in order to survive, we need to make relative distinctions that will help that survival - ours or humanity. 

Everything has equal value since everything it's being. That is true. But Leo is more valuable than Hitler, and that is also true. It seems that paradox is the heart of existence.

"Power lies in making distinctions. Freedom lies in destroying them."

 

[DarkestLight]

I've gotten into the habit of just letting myself walk a path without expecting anything. Convert to a religion and see how it affects me, become an atheist, see how that affects me. Live like an asshole or kind person, see what happens. Change the frame and follow its path, see where it goes. Then compare each path and see where it's common themes and differences are found. You then walk a path of common patterns, and a path of differences. It's like the Hegelian dialectic if that makes sense. Two phenomena that seem like opposites typically are indicative of a third single phenomena. It's data collection and experience. Using the senses and perception directly without any judgement, what seems to happen when you treat people as having inherent value as living beings. I'd say experiment with living your life as if all lives had equal existential value, and live your life as if they do not. Where they have common ground, and where the pragmatism drives you, there you'll have a closer answer I feel. But I honestly don't know if a full answer is even knowable. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Who knows? 

[shermano667]

Theres only you in existence. the serial killer your friend and your mom are all just you. everything is one, therefore all has the same value

[YaMayka]

It is indeed so relevant. Since I am not enlightened I will leave that perspective to those more competent. I can only say that we don't know everything. It is so easy to judge on appearances and impressions but we don't know a thing about this other person and why (motivation and purpose) they do what they do. We do not know what would happen if they did not. We simply have hardly enough data to judge. We can only cut a piece of the reality as we know it and form an opinion. From where I stand a mouse or a bug does not have less value than a person. It might have less value to me at this moment though but I would have a problem to say it is worth less.

[Strikr]

16 hours ago, Juan Cruz Giusto said:

If I had to choose between killing Hitler or killing Ghandi, I wouldn't probably say to myself: "Hmm, value and worth is a thought, it doesn't really exist so I have no clue whom should I kill". I would pull the trigger directly to that awful Jewish hater

Yes, it is true that value is a thought and it doesn't really exist. But in order to survive, we need to make relative distinctions that will help that survival - ours or humanity. 

Everything has equal value since everything it's being. That is true. But Leo is more valuable than Hitler, and that is also true. It seems that paradox is the heart of existence.

"Power lies in making distinctions. Freedom lies in destroying them."

 

what if Hitler would have bring peace on earth for 10 000 years, with his son, starting smoking weed and denying the nazi regim of dad.

Hitler washing corruption to humanity, then decide to makes humanity grow again after he control everything, Hitler then try LSD, contemplate his own life, change perspective, trying to makes the world even better than ghandhi because he transcended red for yellow. Then he cure cancer, and bring peace to the whole race for many decades.

 

 

"Reality" : Hitler was a little bit green, he found that animals was equal to humans. ( germany still have animals right created by hitler who protect them )

 

no one knows.

so it's all bullshit you know, your scale of judging things is always bullshit, even if it drives you

 

@YaMayka 

-> Yes !

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Strikr

[Nahm]

On 9/12/2018 at 1:14 PM, Ryan_047 said:

Will I only be able to understand why every life is worth the same only when I'll have enlightenment experiences or could I rationalize and truly understand it through thought? 

The serial killer already is God, but doesn’t know it (possibly but unlikely), and by killing him, you liberated him, absolutely, while the ‘innocent’ guy remains fiddling in his ignorance. Then contemplate what this big circle jerk would be without you in it, relatively speaking, and what you would realize, if you weren’t “in” it. 

[CreamCat]

On 9/13/2018 at 3:38 AM, Serotoninluv said:

"Worth" is a relative term. Each person has their own idea of what "worth" means. There is no absolutely true answer to your question.

 

On 9/13/2018 at 2:14 AM, Ryan_047 said:

I fundamentally believe that the life of a person who is pushing humanity forward is worth more than the life of a serial killer who's psyche is so destroyed that he'll never recover and live a normal life as a functioning member of the society.The same applies to the animal kingdom.The life of a dying lion is not worth more than the life of a newly born lion.

To a lion, a rabbit's value is that of toy and food.

To a rabbit, its life is priceless.

To a human, a rabbit's value might be as a cute pet. Some people value bunnies as food.

To me, my life is priceless. To others, I am only as valueable as how much I benefit them.

Worth is relative, but I know what kind of worth you are talking about.

[denydritz]

Yes, I agree with the majority sentiment in this thread. It's not our job or right to value a person's life, and I believe we don't have the skill or the capability to 'calculate', even without accuracy, the value of a person's life.

I say all life is equal. If you say that a person's life is worth less because he is a criminal, you are thinking within a certain frame with very minimal data (one data point that states 'this man is a criminal'). If you want to 'value' a person's life, you would need every single bit of data throughout his life and the interactions he/she has/had/will have with other people and the effect of those interactions compared to the condition where he/she didn't/doesn't/won't have those interactions.

Mathematically it's impossible. But we are creatures of emotional judgment.

[Som]

let's look at what does the word worth mean

As per google search results:

something equivalent in value to the sum or item specified.

Well as humans we learn to judge people from the very start. People just start to liking and disliking people with just a glance ("I hate his guts kind of stuff"). We associate parameters for people which determine their overall worth to us :

Wealth, Beauty, Intelligence, Friendliness, Humor or How Influential the person is.

But these characteristics change and so does their worth with time to us. Worth can hold a different meaning for different people.

To pigs, diamonds are nothing more than rocks but to humans, they are a precious jewel.

But at the core of the matter all the things that are created never really change. To a material, your perception of worth doesn't matter. A rock remains a rock costly or not.

A life that is born remains the same only its experiences change and not it itself.

All lives are born and all lives die their experiences through this journey may differ but not their worth.

So, I believe all Men's lives have equal worth.

[Hansu]

Trump is a living proof that majority of people in all socities and classes think of themselves being "better" than another human being.

What I find scary is that people who understand about consciousness, understand about unconditional love and are educating themselves to becoming loving of all beings somehow think that Trump's destructive ego makes them better people than Trump.

What is unconditional love if not accepting of ones unconsciousness? Its not like calling someone Hitler would help them becoming more conscious, would it?

Im not saying that somehow I love every human equally, but im doing great deal of work to find my way accepting everyone as they are. To not chastize them for their low-consciousness, to not make demons of their misinformated opinions. To "unconditionally" love them.

"If you hate a man today, why would you hate that man tomorrow?"

-Sadhguru

 

[Shin]

Does an ant queen is as important as one ant worker ?

What happens if you kill her ?

(Serious question)

[Spiral]

Human life is worthless. Both collectively and individually. So is worthless the same as worthless? I suppose.

A single person is completely irrelevant from a large scale perspective. In the very end did they matter? No.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Spiral

[Emerald]

Reality is empty of both worth and worthlessness. So, any judgment of worth comes about subjectively and has no backing in reality. So, if we go around assigning worth to others, we will be creating a system of judgment that we will unconsciously use upon ourselves. This is why we can't love ourselves. We believe in the idea that some people are worth more than others. Then, we don't know why we can't love ourselves. It's because we're always judging ourselves against those contrived standards of worth and value. 

So, no. No one is worth anything. And likewise no-one is worthless. Our being is so far beyond the idea of worth, that we can't even fathom of how unshakably valid we are until we let go of the illusion of worth and value.

[Shadowraix]

When you dictate the worth of something, you dictate based on the criteria of how well it aligns with your beliefs and values, as well as how well it benefits you. If you are picking from somebody you know and some killer, you are going to pick based on a very subjective criteria. Its all about how we wish for other people to be and act.

What Hitler did can only be deemed as 'wrong' when compared against some set of beliefs and values.

Truth polarity. The absolute would be yes, everyone has the same worth. (or lack thereof)

Relatively, you could get a dozen different answers.

[YaMayka]

On 9/14/2018 at 6:10 PM, Shin said:

Does an ant queen is as important as one ant worker ?

What happens if you kill her ?

(Serious question)

To whom? To me? Nothing. As to billions other creatures. It is all relative. Not to mention that we don't know the final outcome anyway. Maybe she had some DNA defect and it is better for all ants to be rid of her

And in her nest she will be replaced by a new queen.