Witnessing (and detachment) from the body

[Misagh]

3 minutes ago, fabriciom said:

@Spoobie To me that its just watching/observing your thoughts and the body.

Maybe Im misunderstanding body "detachment"?

At least when I do this I can feel like im not present and the mind is working on its own but I do not feel detached from it. I am still there in the background.

As long as there's a sense/feeling of "I-ness", self-realization has not occurred. 

[Misagh]

Here's a quick diagram I made that might be useful. 

Most confuse the I Am state with self realization. This is not the case. For the Self to be realized, the "I-ness" has to go. 

[fabriciom]

6 minutes ago, Misagh said:

As long as there's a sense/feeling of "I-ness", self-realization has not occurred. 

When I talk about myself I am referring to what I am which is nothing.

I think it would be silly if I refer to my self all the time in the third person as nothing or consciousness.

Hi, I am ego, I mean consciousness...

Edited September 12, 2018 by fabriciom

[Misagh]

3 minutes ago, fabriciom said:

When I talk about myself I am referring to what I am which is nothing.

I think it would be silly if I refer to my self all the time in the third person as nothing or consciousness.

Hi, I am ego, I mean consciousness...

Yes but pay attention to the subtlety of what is being said. Of course, this could be a failure of language. Not being a native speaker, I might be misunderstanding you. However, the "I" who is saying that he is "nothing" is still an "I". It's very subtle identification with the body/mind etc. This is why I say the "feeling" of being an "I" has to go. And this has to be permanent. 

[Nahm]

@Misagh Breath focused meditation.....then out of the blue, pop - oneness/no longer the body...then obe’s (only 2?)....then there was a ‘both’ period...then a hero’s dose....nonduality....no memory anymore of identifying as the body before all this. 

[fabriciom]

21 minutes ago, Misagh said:

Yes but pay attention to the subtlety of what is being said. Of course, this could be a failure of language. Not being a native speaker, I might be misunderstanding you. However, the "I" who is saying that he is "nothing" is still an "I". It's very subtle identification with the body/mind etc. This is why I say the "feeling" of being an "I" has to go. And this has to be permanent. 

You are thinking of what I think when I say "I".

Like I said before, "I" use the language to simplify.

If you want to know what "I" feel when "I" think of I, its what "I" said before. Space, silence, stillness.

Talking in a third person to "me" seems of someone who is trying to be different, stand out, the ego.

Edited September 12, 2018 by fabriciom

[Nahm]

@Mikael89 30-60 minutes a day for 20 years. And a long list of other factors. I did not know about psychedelics, and I was not aware of how thinking arises reidentifying. Could have taken maybe 2 years.   Wouldn’t change a thing though, as this was just one facet in my life. One part of a fulfilling life. 

[fabriciom]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Mikael89 30-60 minutes a day for 20 years. And a long list of other factors. I did not know about psychedelics, and I was not aware of how thinking arises reidentifying. Could have taken maybe 2 years.   Wouldn’t change a thing though, as this was just one facet in my life. One part of a fulfilling life. 

20 years taking psychedelics?

I dont know man, but on my first try I knew that wasn't it. Body felling like shit, the high wasn't constant as through meditation, paranoia, loss of time perception, did I mention crazy paranoia...

[Nahm]

@fabriciom No, but that would be one hell of a trip.   I did shrooms for the first time maybe 4 years ago.   Just my opinion, but that’s the beauty of psych’s, they don’t contain those properties, they show us if we do- as in, they show us if we hold falsities, as truth. 

[Toby]

2 hours ago, Misagh said:

Most confuse the I Am state with self realization. This is not the case.

Because you use a different map. For example, if you use Nisargadatta as a map "self realization" and even "unity consciousness" is still "I Am" for him.

[njuufa]

When you had a dream of falling down. Did you were aware of your body ? No. What you were aware of ? Nothing. Well that is kinda what it is. But you woke up sweating and in terror and had to come up with conclusions in order to fall asleep again. But you had this moment of nothingness right there in a fall.

[Misagh]

@Toby

""self realization" and even "unity consciousness" is still "I Am" for him." 

This doesn't make much sense to me  

I do know that most people mistake "I Am" with self-realization. It is not so because there is still duality between a subtle ego who has realized its own nature of illusion, yet is unable to let go and merge completely. Conversely, this stage is called "turia" in the scriptures. Very difficult to transcend with the help of a guru. 

[Toby]

3 hours ago, Misagh said:

""self realization" and even "unity consciousness" is still "I Am" for him." 

This doesn't make much sense to me  

He sees "I Am" (aka "consciousness") - at least in my interpretation - more like a spectrum on which "transcendental consciousness", "cosmic consciousness" ("self realization"), "god consciousness" and "unity consciousness" happen. He spoke a lot about what is beyond "consciousness".

[Barry J]

Without terms of reference this is just a fun chat but nothing more

Seeing you all misunderstand each other is a bit painful!

[yawning_]

to clarify - is the question "how did 'you' manage to [remember] witness of a state of detachment from the body?"

 

 

n̥̲̮͇̖̘̙͙̻̩ͯ̀́ͪͧ̄ͮͅa͎̝̮̺͈̦̰̟̮̯͉ͭ̇ͥ̃́̔͊̄̂̒̏ͣ̀̐̚m̞̪̹̱̲̟͎̖̥̣͎͒́ͣ̉ͤͮ̌̐̾ͯ̔͛̿͆a̙̞̘̹̽̌ͮ̽̅̂̌̅ͅs̮̞̲͍͖͎̜̻̫̹̣̜͔̭ͫ̃̃̿̓̄ͥ̑ͅt̮̘̮̪͓̘̠͍͖͇ͭͤ̇͑͋ͥ̂̉ͣͧ̒̚e̯̝̼̙̰̘͔̝̮̺̻̱̞̽͋̆ͮ̔́ͪ͋́

 

- yawning gap

[fabriciom]

47 minutes ago, Barry J said:

Without terms of reference this is just a fun chat but nothing more

Seeing you all misunderstand each other is a bit painful!

Seems kinda funny how you guys are analysing something that 99.9% of the people in the world do not know for them selves. 

How can anyone know who another person is or thinks they are? 

Stop kidding your self.

LOL Im with you. 

So is there consensus on who am I? 

[Nahm]

@fabriciom ? Nice one.

[cetus]

7 hours ago, Toby said:

He sees "I Am" (aka "consciousness") - at least in my interpretation - more like a spectrum on which "transcendental consciousness", "cosmic consciousness" ("self realization"), "god consciousness" and "unity consciousness" happen. He spoke a lot about what is beyond "consciousness".

@Toby Yes Nisargadatta refers to beyond consciousness as turiatita  or the fifth state.- the parabrahaman "All love for no-knowing"

Any wittnessing or "knowing" is still the "I am". "Stay in the "I am" and in doing so you will trancend it". But how many ppl do you actually know who truly moved beyond the "I am"?  When there is no one remaining to know there is no one there. The "siddha" state. When nothing but an avitar remains. The guru of guru's.

[fabriciom]

So it continues...

 

I dont know much and I don't want to.

 

But "thinking" and "analysing" its not it.  More so when the party is not even one self.