When the red pill kicks in

[SOUL]

Through the natural process of identity the self/ego anchors it's perceptional orientation around what we typically encounter in every day life. There is nothing inherently 'wrong' or 'bad' about this but our subconscious is trying to set up a 'stable' base in an 'unstable' landscape so this can be problematic.

When we awaken this can cause a significant amount of disillusionment because we are seeing the illusory nature of the world and it's appearances. Since the self/ego is losing it's moorings to ground itself in what it previously has known there will be a host of unpleasant sensations in an attempt to motivate us to reattach to them.

These tribulations we are put through by the self/ego are just faux stimulus even though it may feel and appear very real, we aren't in real distress but it's a challenge to recognize it while going through it. It's an 'ego backlash' as someone put it here and will typically continue in us until the self/ego gets it's identity stabilized again.

I would suggest to place attention on and increase awareness of the present moment and of just being present. The world of circumstance, which includes much of our inner life is a shifting environment and the most unchanging thing we can find in it is just 'being' in the 'present moment', so 'being present' can stabilize our perceptual experience.

Just 'being present' for the self/ego is too much of a unfamiliar and uncomfortable minimalist experience for it so may still react negatively but the longer we stay being aware in the present moment the less intense the ego backlash will be. Eventually the self/ego will orient it's identity in being present which has it's own challenges of managing the 'spiritual ego'.

Getting to the point that self/ego is comfortable in being present and ceases the negative reaction to it will bring a sense of harmony and peace in our experience of conscious life. Very few actually get there instead preferring to focus on spiritual practices and exercises which can become a distraction from being present and a fixation of self/ego.

Not sure if this was any help but take what is useful.

[bejapuskas]

@Barry J Watch the videos on spiral dynamics, they are very eye opening!

[Roman25]

@tashawoodfall The reason of why there are so many zombies is the fact that they don't know that they are zombies. I cam across actualized.org by pure dumb luck and it made me realize how unconscious I am compared to how I could be in the future.

[Deutsche22]

On 9/12/2018 at 6:27 AM, tashawoodfall said:

I took the red pill but part of me wants to go back.  Ignorance was bliss.

I feel like I woke up today haunted by the fact that almost everyone is zombie-like...living in this stupid society chasing stimulation.  I feel empty not being able to "connect" with people on a deeper level anymore.  To the point of my chest hurting...I feel alone.  The "good" in others...how I used to see people in the world..it's shattered..I see zombies and it makes me emotional on a deep level.  

I'm having a hard time finding meaning in "normal" things.  I feel like an outsider.  I don't know what to do anymore.  I feel lost.

This is painful.  I have a hard time working when I know how meaningless the work I'm doing is.  I have to do it to pay for my bills but I feel like a prisoner.  

Spiritual guidance tells me to let go..follow my heart and everything will work out.  For a second I believe it and then I see how it'll lead me to homelessness and give me more problems.  I can't just go live in a cabin for a few years..and survive...

The life purpose I came up with.  It was exciting at first and now is not.  I have to work hard to inspire myself with it and I have not.

I have to try to enjoy this journey.  What else is there to do?  

I feel exactly the same as you. Leo has a video about self-actualizing and how lonely it is. Everyone I run into is totally asleep unconscious. I feel like this forum is the only place to talk to Awakening people. Thank you for putting this out there.

[tashawoodfall]

 @SOUL

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

Very few actually get there instead preferring to focus on spiritual practices and exercises which can become a distraction from being present and a fixation of self/ego.

 

I mean when you no longer believe in the old ways you used to and the motivations to do those old things like prove yourself, maintain status, attention, show off, sex, socializing, materialistic collections, mindless fun... when that dies, you are left with no motivation or meaning or anything that gets you excited, nothing you really look forward to and it feels like depression.  

So instead of staying present, I can see how people tend to focus on spiritual practices and exercises and I feel the need to do so because I want to feel more meaning and a change in perception seems to be the solution.  

Video from 8:00 - 9:10 I feel like he describes what this is.  He then says "you take on a new belief"  and I think that's where I want to focus.  

I feel like any sort of progress will have to start with inspiration.  I'd like to better "know" and not just believe is maybe possible...the metaphysical, paranormal.  Idk I'm looking for meaning and inspiration in this world.  It's better than seeing zombies, a fucked up system and meaninglessness to everything...  

If I'm completely honest I don't think I believe in metaphysical, paranormal.  I just have a sort of intellectual understanding but it hasn't become beliefs so I sort of want to now look for evidence of these things.

I saw that Leo recommended on someone's post to look in Dean Radin's research on psychic abilities so I guess I'll start there and see what else interests me.  https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Parapsychology-researcher-Dean-Radin-on-ESP-2503036.php  Maybe looking into other research and science will help like reading up on subatomic particles.  I used to have Gaia but I couldn't take it all too seriously.   I think if I can find convincing evidence that I believe took place even though I wasn't there...that may improve the way I see this world, others and meaning.

10 hours ago, Feel Good said:

It's about questioning the conventional context in which one grew up in because you're seeing the symptom of absolutist thinking (because you are now emerging into an understanding that reality can be viewed in a number of different ways).

I actually think you may be spot on with what is going on

 

10 hours ago, Feel Good said:

"Individualists and Pluralists (green) tend to distrust conventional wisdom and the hyper-rational tenets of 
the Conscientious stage (orange). At least initially, they may reject the Achiever mindset wholesale. They may try to distance themselves from all that went before and reject the strive-drive values of the prior stage. This 
demands that they reevaluate the soundness of the prefixed role identities that society offers and 
sanctions. One must redefine themselves uniquely and independently of these givens based on their own experience, values, and conclusions."

wow, so it really is this.  Is there any resource you recommend to learn more about Stage Green beside Leo's video and the website he recommended?  http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/green/

[Strikr]

watch leo video blog on meta understanding, you'll get more from all his video after this one. ( if you get this one ) to me it was genius.

 

ho I feel you, this is why I anchored myself again into reality, it's hard.

you talked about everyone looking like a zomby, be aware that's a egocentric feeling, you're not less a zomby than them, everyone is doing his best in life, even if the best sound silly to yourself or the path you're on currently.

remember the world is unfair ( and fair ), but for the purpose of the understanding, don't see the world as good/bad it limits you. ( but reflect that your energy will mirror into reality, how you watch at things, and feel them ) how you surround yourself is a reflection of what you are or need.

 

no one noticed than life is a perpetual cycle of birth and die ? ( in the meta sense ) when you're kid, you feel safe, then you start having fear, then you fight for social and makes sense, then you have sense, but you need to fight to be loved ( or to get attention ) then you get attention, you understand that this thing will not fullfil you, then you start reflecting what will help me ? then you detach from people that are late in their journey because you're one your own path ( or who stay stuck in a "stage" )

 

every knowledge acquired change your pov on life

 

but be aware all I m sayin is a meta feeling of my self, nothing true / wrong it's just is what I reflect now, and everything is made from a human mind like yours, with darkness, with lightness, every behavior you have is in every human being, but in a form or another, everyone have some Hitler and some Gandhi in himself. I do not believe in human being bad, or good, they just do their thing, do not judge them to be stupid or lacking smartness.

You don't know what you don't know, when you judge, it's preparing yourself for a backslash, and then discover that you was still the zomby even when you was judging other to be zomby. ( or a bad feeling that is entering your soul/body/brain )

I m not sayin you're this of that, everything is a perpetual movement toward evolution, problem > fixing : problem > fixing etc.. ( part of how I see things )

Edited September 13, 2018 by Strikr

[SOUL]

38 minutes ago, tashawoodfall said:

I mean when you no longer believe in the old ways you used to and the motivations to do those old things like prove yourself, maintain status, attention, show off, sex, socializing, materialistic collections, mindless fun... when that dies, you are left with no motivation or meaning or anything that gets you excited, nothing you really look forward to and it feels like depression.  

So instead of staying present, I can see how people tend to focus on spiritual practices and exercises and I feel the need to do so because I want to feel more meaning and a change in perception seems to be the solution.  

You say "you" but you mean "I" because you have no idea what I or anyone else experiences when they shift away from "the old ways".

For my own experience, when I shifted away from those old ways I felt relief and freedom from expectations that weren't mine but foisted on me by others and I didn't really want anyway. So this actually motivates me to continue to transform my perspective away from them, this is very meaningful for me, I am excited by it and look presently to it.

I will caution you though about just replacing the old ways that feed egocentric appeasing with new ways that are still egocentric appeasing. If it still feeds the ego/self identity in using practices and exercises, even spiritual ones, it sets up the same issues associated with the ego/self that can stir up suffering and distress from dogmatic conditioning.

By finding meaning and motivation in just being present we can be fulfilled and at peace without any need for specific conditions in life, we can be so in any conditions. Then as we add all the other things in life it's being added to us fulfilled in just being, not dependent on those other things. If our joy, fulfillment and peace isn't dependent on them, it cannot be disrupted by them

You are welcome to do anything you wish, I'm just trying to offer some insight from my years of doing inner work, but we are all different and have different preferences.

Peace.

[Malelekakis]

@tashawoodfall stop looking, start seeing. 

[tsuki]

On 12.09.2018 at 3:27 PM, tashawoodfall said:

I took the red pill but part of me wants to go back.  Ignorance was bliss.

I feel like I woke up today haunted by the fact that almost everyone is zombie-like...living in this stupid society chasing stimulation.  I feel empty not being able to "connect" with people on a deeper level anymore.  To the point of my chest hurting...I feel alone.  The "good" in others...how I used to see people in the world..it's shattered..I see zombies and it makes me emotional on a deep level.  

I'm having a hard time finding meaning in "normal" things.  I feel like an outsider.  I don't know what to do anymore.  I feel lost.

This is painful.  I have a hard time working when I know how meaningless the work I'm doing is.  I have to do it to pay for my bills but I feel like a prisoner.  

Spiritual guidance tells me to let go..follow my heart and everything will work out.  For a second I believe it and then I see how it'll lead me to homelessness and give me more problems.  I can't just go live in a cabin for a few years..and survive...

The life purpose I came up with.  It was exciting at first and now is not.  I have to work hard to inspire myself with it and I have not.

I have to try to enjoy this journey.  What else is there to do?  

@tashawoodfall
Recognizing meaninglessness of existence is an important part of the path.
For me, freedom from it came from recognition that suffering because of meaninglessness is absurd.
To suffer because of meaninglessness is to suffer because of the lack of meaning.
If the life is truly meaningless, then why is the lack of meaning, meaningful to me?

To fully realize meaninglessness of existence is to find the meaninglessness meaningless.
You can go either way. Reject it and become a person once more, or embrace it and die.
I took the second option.

[tashawoodfall]

@tsuki Interesting way to see it.

I feel like the problem that created a lot of the suffering I went through was that I was interpreting the meaninglessness as a bad thing...

What's helping to get me 'moving' again is curiosity...

and embracing the fact that I do not know

[SOUL]

9 hours ago, tsuki said:

@tashawoodfall
Recognizing meaninglessness of existence is an important part of the path.
For me, freedom from it came from recognition that suffering because of meaninglessness is absurd.
To suffer because of meaninglessness is to suffer because of the lack of meaning.
If the life is truly meaningless, then why is the lack of meaning, meaningful to me?

To fully realize meaninglessness of existence is to find the meaninglessness meaningless.
You can go either way. Reject it and become a person once more, or embrace it and die.
I took the second option.

Interesting how you create meaningful choice in meaningless meaninglessness. You may suggest that you don't but if you didn't there wouldn't be you finding the meaninglessness meaningless significant and any option to reject or embrace it.

If it works to cease suffering in your experience then that is all that matters.

[tsuki]

Just now, tashawoodfall said:

I feel like the problem that created a lot of the suffering I went through was that I was interpreting the meaninglessness as a bad thing...

To interpret it as either good, or bad is to find meaninglessness meaningful.
Both directions are a way to become a person.
I think that this is what @SOUL hinting towards.

Just now, tashawoodfall said:

What's helping to get me 'moving' again is curiosity...
and embracing the fact that I do not know

Not knowing is wonderful. It had helped me a lot as well. Good luck.

Just now, SOUL said:

Interesting how you create meaningful choice in meaningless meaninglessness. You may suggest that you don't but if you didn't there wouldn't be you finding the meaninglessness meaningless significant and any option to reject or embrace it.

If it works to cease suffering in your experience then that is all that matters.

You're right.
What helps my suffering is letting meaning and meaninglessness weave together.
Suffering is not gone, I just learned to enjoy it (is it really suffering if I'm enjoying it though?).

It feels as if there were two people inside of me, taking contradictory stances at the same time. I can't tell whether it is conflict or unity .

[hundreth]

@tashawoodfall I'm going through something similar. Check out the Bhagavad Gita. The entire text is basically Arjuna having a dark night of the soul type experience and Krishna stepping in to re-motivate him to fight and immerse himself in his work without attachment. 

http://www.innervisionyoga.com/ask-the-yogi-follow-your-dharma/

Quote

The Bhagavad Gita, one of the world’s most sacred texts, has resounded through the centuries because of its direct relation and applicability to the most challenging aspects of our daily lives.  Everyone on a spiritual path will sooner or later recognize first-hand some variation of Arjuna’s despair.  Whether it is the proverbial “Dark Night of the Soul” or a lesser but persistent doubt, (alasya, one of the main stumbling blocks on the path of yoga), this despair can lead us to think, “What’s the point of going on?” or “Nothing seems to matter”.  So when Arjuna drops his bow it appears that he is trying to quit, an option that at times can appear attractive.  But Arjuna’s action is much more significant than that.  He is not just simply giving up his bow; he is also giving up his dharma.

So how does Arjuna get to that point of giving up?  And why shouldnt he just quit what seems to be a no-win, horrible situation? In select situations, giving up or even quitting can indeed be a good first step to change.  But what Arjuna is trying to give up is much more than just his place in a battle. “Not by refraining from action does man attain freedom from action.  Not by mere renunciation does (one) attain supreme perfection.  For not even for a moment can a man be without action.  Helplessly are all driven to action by the forces of nature.” (BG 3.4-6)  Krishna tells Arjuna here in no uncertain terms that quitting is not an option.  Giving up is not a luxury Arjuna can indulge in.  Even retreating from the world to live in a cave is taking an action.  So giving up as Arjuna tries to do is not an act of surrender or true humility, it is the act of an ego caught in the mesh of avidya or ignorance mistaking outer appearance as ultimate reality.  At this point many have used Arjuna’s dilemma and Krishnas response in the Bhagavad Gita to justify wars, but this is a very minimal or surface understanding of the Bhagavad Gita without any awareness of that Sat Dharma which is Krishna’s deepest message.  “Even the life of the body could not be if there were no action.”  (BG 3.8)  Essentially Krishna is telling Arjuna that we are literally made of action.  On the level of atoms and quantum physics this is true.  The cells, molecules, and atoms in our body are in a constant wave-like flux even while coalescing into apparently solid matter focused to a point in time and space.  Ultimately, Arjunas dharma (and our own life) cannot be quit or fled because quite simply, there is nowhere else to go!

“Greater is thine own work, even if this be humble, then the work of another, even if this be great.  When a man  does the work God gives him, no sin can touch this man.”   (BG 18.47)

In the Mahabharata and the Bhagavad Gita, it is clear that Arjuna was born to be a warrior.  And not just any warrior… Like his Pandu brothers, Arjuna is a brave, and noble warrior fighting in a just cause.  He was also the greatest archer of his time.  The bow and arrow were his life’s gift and focus, one of his reasons for existing.  Krishna knows this when he states, “Action is greater than inaction: perform therefore thy task in life.” (BG 3.8) Each one of us is born with the equivalent of Arjunas bow.  It is the very quality of life itself manifest through a specific talent, quality, character trait or ability.  To despair and quit our individual dharma in the face of struggle is to give up that tall ladder of duty and inspiration before we have climbed to freedom.  It is the path of illusion or maya and which leads to great suffering (dukha) as we try to limit the Infinite to that which is seen through our faulty perceptions.

What's your bow and arrow?

Edited September 14, 2018 by hundreth

[SOUL]

36 minutes ago, tsuki said:

To interpret it as either good, or bad is to find meaninglessness meaningful.
Both directions are a way to become a person.
I think that this is what @SOUL hinting towards.

You're right.

What helps my suffering is letting meaning and meaninglessness weave together.
Suffering is not gone, I just learned to enjoy it (is it really suffering if I'm enjoying it though?).

It feels as if there were two people inside of me, taking contradictory stances at the same time. I can't tell whether it is conflict or unity .

It doesn't need to be framed as either good or bad for something to have meaning, just having significance is enough. It's virtually impossible for something to be completely devoid of any meaning unless it is absolutely insignificant to us. Being aware of something as being significant without attaching to it is a subtle distinction observed in awakening.

Pain is part of life but suffering can be defined as an ongoing pain including physical, mental and emotional. We don't have to self sustain pain within our mind so that it is self suffering, though. Sustaining joy can be the way of our present being and any pain that comes in life doesn't have to interrupt it, that's similar to what you suggest, joy even if there is pain.

The pain may have meaning/significance to us such as our body is in need of some healing or we have lost a loved one. We can feel that pain because pain is part of life but the suffering comes when we attach to that pain, we identify with that pain. The ego may even perpetuate that 'pain' long after the actual pain is past so causes self suffering.

The ego/self may feel a pain having it's meaning taken away and not replaced with other meaning, even if it's the significance of accepting meaninglessness. The ego/self will try to instigate inner 'suffering' for us without meaning or until we find a new meaning for it to attach identity.

Meaning isn't a good or bad thing in itself but it does have significance to us because that's what it is, it's a natural survival mechanism. Although, not allowing any meaning or significance we are aware of to form attachment can be a very nuanced dance of being aware.

We need to eat food to survive but it is the ego/self that gets identity from what kind of food it attaches to as the 'right' food to eat. We have meaning/significance to survive but it is the ego/self that gets identity from what kind of meaning/significance it attaches to as the 'right' meaning.

Meaning isn't an absolute, it's a relative so our temporal mind uses it to enrich the experience like it uses nutrition to enrich the body. Yet people try to make meaning an absolute by attaching an ultimate significance of truth to it. This is why some get very attached to their beliefs because belief is just a conceptual meaning/significance they attach a capital 'T' truth to.

Does this bring clarity?

[tashawoodfall]

A new friend of mine is a musician and after witnessing one of my minor red pill episodes ... he wrote to me that it inspired him to compose a song...of course, I had to listen and it's brought me to tears.  He expresses it so well

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by tashawoodfall

[astrokeen]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:27 PM, tashawoodfall said:

I took the red pill but part of me wants to go back.  Ignorance was bliss.

I seem to be the only one asking this question, so please excuse my naivety - What is the red pill? 

[tashawoodfall]

@astrokeen It comes from a Movie "The Matrix"...

[tashawoodfall]

@astrokeen 

 

[here-now]

@tashawoodfall I enjoyed listening to your friend's music! Thanks for sharing. 

[Brittany]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, tashawoodfall said:

I feel like I woke up today haunted by the fact that almost everyone is zombie-like...living in this stupid society chasing stimulation.  I feel empty not being able to "connect" with people on a deeper level anymore.  To the point of my chest hurting...I feel alone.  The "good" in others...how I used to see people in the world..it's shattered..I see zombies and it makes me emotional on a deep level.  

This is a stage on the path. The misanthropy stage. 

It won't last forever.

The reason you feel empty and in discomfort is because your perspective is not loving. 

Viewing them as zombies is not loving. Hence, your suffering.

Take on the role of a parent and have compassion for them. And then you will feel better.

But as long as you see them as zombies, you won't feel good. 

You have to transcend the misanthropy and see every being as consciousness. And see them as the same source as you.

You need more "namaste". haha

"The light in me, sees the light in you" = Namaste

You aren't practicing Namaste and it is making you feel disturbed and sick.

Metta Meditation is really helpful for embodying Namaste.

I recommend Metta to all people who fall into nihilism and misanthropy. Those are 2 stages that many people fall into because they were exposed to big truths but weren't connected to their hearts.

Congrats on taking the red pill! And good luck!

Edited September 15, 2018 by Brittany