Elliot hulse philosophy of material path and spiritual path

[kieranperez]

5 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

i agree with this on a general level. it's a valuable advice for those with weak practices.

but there's a certain way of BEING that can touch their hearts in strange ways. deep listening and eye contact can reach them sometimes.

of course, it's not recommended if your practice of mindfulness isn't strong enough.

I don’t think most advanced saints, sages, mystics, yogis, etc. are going to be able to touch the heart of gang members, thugs, and in the hood in East LA or East Oakland or Neo Nazis and KKk members in Texas.

Those people attract a certain people at certain levels of development. 

Hell, look at Christ. How did that enlightenment thing and massive universal unconditional love end up working out? Got him killed and didn’t fundamentally change the people who did that to him. Couldn’t even touch them. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by kieranperez

[Consept]

Ok so incels, I'm not gonna talk about, not to insult them but they seem a bit delusional and honestly it's quite sad that they think they have no determination in their life. I'm sure I don't need to advise anyone on here but do not buy into what incels say at all. 

Mgtow on the other hand, I haven't delved incredibly deep, just listened to Ronin man and a couple others. But in general I can relate to some of there points, marriage for example (which obviously they're against), I wouldn't say you shouldn't get married but I think it's fair to question it. We grow up in a culture where it's drummed in us to get married, sometimes mentioned in the media on a daily basis. I think this definitely should be looked at from each personal perspective, why is it the default? If it wasn't the norm and there was a fringe group getting married that would seem weird. 

But in general I think every ideology has some valid points (not sure about incels), it's just that people use them from a place a fear and then whatever they're agenda is or whatever internal problems they're trying to solve, they use it for that. It would be so nice if people weren't attached to ideologies and we could just talk about these ideas for what they are 

 

[Consept]

6 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

I don’t think most advanced saints, sages, mystics, yogis, etc. are going to be able to touch the heart of gang members, thugs, and in the hood in East LA or East Oakland or Neo Nazis and KKk members in Texas.

Those people attract a certain people at certain levels of development. 

Hell, look at Christ. How did that enlightenment thing and massive universal unconditional love end up working out? Got him killed and didn’t fundamentally change the people who did that to him. Couldn’t even touch them. 

Not saying he's  enlightened but he is approaching them with presence and trying to understanding, so it can help 

 

[kieranperez]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

Not saying he's  enlightened but he is approaching them with presence and trying to understanding, so it can help 

 

That’s having deep maturity and understanding and seeing the bigger picture. Also keep in mind that that man is an exception to most black people even being able to get that far with KKK people which is precisely why that story is being aired, because of exceptional it is (in the sense of how rare it is someone can even do that). 

Don’t want to get off track with the point of this thread though.

[Your place at Heart]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

Not saying he's  enlightened but he is approaching them with presence and trying to understanding, so it can help 

 

I like this guy. This how you should approach all people in general. Respect their egos as les giblin said in his book"power and confidence." in leo's book list for relationships. The Alt-righters are now going strong and growing hard because for years, they have been disrespected. Respect them and maintain distance and give them space, the more you attack them, the more they grow effectively and rapidly in numbers(collective ego expansion). An ego left without a challenge, is an ego set up for failure. 

[Your place at Heart]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

Suffering and meaninglessness is not cured by sex, otherwise masturbating would cure it.

Nope! It will make it worse. Take it from me. What has cured the problem is purpose and meaning chasing. When you are working toward your purpose you become so driven and happy, you even go all the way to interact and socialize with people in your life purpose field where you may find a high quality partner that satisfy you. You get two satisfactions: 1 one from your meaningful work to yourself and 1 from benefits that come with meaningful work.

[Leo Gura]

For every one Nazi you manage to convince, 1000 others you will not.

[Your place at Heart]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For every one Nazi you manage to convince, 1000 others you will not.

Leo, didn't you say we shouldn't convince anybody?, why should we convince or persuade anyone. what gain do we get from spilling out our ego into other people?

Anyhow well said. 

I add to it "You can't teach a a big cat how to take crap in a litter box".

Edited September 11, 2018 by Your place at Heart

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For every one Nazi you manage to convince, 1000 others you will not.

Don't think he was necessarily trying to convince, he just approached them trying to understand. I think just talking to each other and putting ideologies aside can help.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Don't think he was necessarily trying to convince, he just approached them trying to understand. I think just talking to each other and putting ideologies aside can help.

Yes, I am all for that.

But most people, especially those who subscribe to an ego-serving, fear-based or anger-based ideology are not open to having conversations. Because they believe they are right. Their minds are closed.

[Leo Gura]

When it comes to understanding women, many angry and depressed young males cannot do so because they are stuck in such a deficiency mindset. It's because they need women so badly to satisfy their sexual survival needs that they cannot see women fairly, objectively, impartially. So they tend to create all sorts of twisted narratives and misunderstandings of women -- ones which are designed to serve the man's ego needs.

For example, lots of these types of men like to think of women as cheating sluts. It is not a true assessment of women, it's just the young horny male's distorted ego perception. It's much easier to call a woman a cheating slut than to admit that she didn't want to sleep with me because I am a weak, unattractive, juvenile male.

A lot of these young males do not even recognize that a woman exists unless she is hot enough for them to sleep with. Any "ugly" woman is basically seen as a waste, and completely ignored. Why? Because their mind is only focused on getting its needs met.

There in no genuine interest in understanding women, caring for women, or even trying to build healthy relationships with women. It's all about MY SEXUAL NEEDS! It's like a bum begging for quarters on the roadside. All he can think about it quarters and food. His whole perception of reality is warped by his dire and urgent survival needs.

"Women only sleep with rich assholes and hot studs. They are sluts who will cheat on you the moment a hotter richer guy comes along." << this is actually a projection of the horny young male's ego. This is actually how HE would behave.

Here's the real truth:

"I (the guy) only want to sleep with hot attractive women. I am a slut who will cheat on the girl as soon as a hotter girl comes along because all I care about is looks."

Projection 101

Every time a guy says, "Women only care about looks" what he really means is, "I only care about looks". Whatever twisted version of reality he sees gets reflected by to him via confirmation bias and deficiency-perception.

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When it comes to understanding women, many angry and depressed young males cannot do that because they are suck in such a deficency mindset. It's because they need women so badly to satisfy their sexual survival needs that they cannot think about women fairly, objectively, impartially. So they tend to create all sorts of twisted narratives and misunderstandings of women -- ones which are designed to serve the man's ego needs.

For example, lots of these types of men like to think of women as cheating sluts. It is not a true assessment of women, it's just the young horny male's distorted ego perception. It's much easier to call a woman a cheating slut than to admit that she didn't want to sleep with me because I am a weak, unattractive, juvenile male.

I take your point, I always find that with new information and ideologies, you can always react in 2 ways either you use it to rationalise who you think you are, so in your example all women are whores, thats why I can't get them. Or you can use it to challenge what you may have previously thought and use it to see from a different perspective. 

Which one you do depends on where you're at as a person, if you're in a scarcity mindset it will rationalise that, if you're in a abundance you'll take what you need. But the information should be out there, it's just wading through all the bullshit to get to the real perspective

[Consept]

Also keep in mind there's very limited education for males when it comes to interacting with women, there's nothing really in the mainstream geared towards this. In fact it's seen as sleazy etc there's very few real male discussions where you hear real men's perspectives, whereas you get loads of honest female perspectives on TV (the view or loose women if you're in the UK). Not to sound all mgtow but there needs to be some kind of healthy male influencers that can give real knowledge, otherwise they can fall into these hate filled rabbit holes online 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

Also keep in mind there's very limited education for males when it comes to interacting with women, there's nothing really in the mainstream geared towards this. In fact it's seen as sleazy etc there's very few real male discussions where you hear real men's perspectives, whereas you get loads of honest female perspectives on TV (the view or loose women if you're in the UK). Not to sound all mgtow but there needs to be some kind of healthy male influencers that can give real knowledge, otherwise they can fall into these hate filled rabbit holes online 

I agree. Our education system does a terrible job of teaching males about how to be healthy strong males and how to build relationships or attract women.

[kieranperez]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I agree. Our education system does a terrible job of teaching males about how to be healthy strong males and how to build relationships or attract women.

Our education system does a terrible teaching healthy anything for that matter. Mental health, “intellectual health”, spiritual health, physical health. To the degree that it doesn’t is honestly pathetic. 

[Leo Gura]

@kieranperez Just keep in mind, 100 years ago most of the world was illiterate.

Our education system is just in its infancy. Human society is still in the Dark Ages.

In 500 years all of this will be reformed. People like us are the wave of the future.

Children in 500 years will take all of this for granted. For them, self-actualization will be 100 times easier because there will be a vast infrastructure in place for it, unlike now.

We are building the infrastructure for tomorrow, today!

Until that project is complete we will have lots of horny, angry, depressed Incels demonizing women.

[Your place at Heart]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@kieranperez Just keep in mind, 100 years ago most of the world was illiterate.

Our education system is just in its infancy. Human society is still in the Dark Ages.

In 500 years all of this will be reformed. People like us are the wave of the future.

Children in 500 years will take all of this for granted. For them, self-actualization will be 100 times easier because there will be a vast infrastructure in place for it, unlike now.

We are building the infrastructure for tomorrow, today!

Until that project is complete we will have lots of horny, angry, depressed Incels demonizing women.

Leo but ok. Lets hit pause with incels and how about the Feminists who are man hating radicals or metoo liars  who got in hollywood by offering their body to the producer for a role, later to come calling him a rapist? or going out on date with someone and then next day, saying they touched inappropriately when it is not true? trivializing true rape victims?  You cant just attack incels without other liars from otherside who behave like them and even worse. They are all worse in my eyes but again who am i to judge. i surrender my will to the consciousness believing whatever happens to me good or bad is for a higher reason and I only have to accept it and not fight it. I will only apply thick face black heart when I want something out of this life

Edited September 12, 2018 by Your place at Heart

[Your place at Heart]

I personally suck with western women despite my confidence gained from doing actualized work and approaching hundreds of women with 80-90% nothing moving forward. I didn't rant like incels or like former pua like rooshv, though I am only successful with eastern women who have paradigms of submissiveness and housewive mentality from their cultures but western women not so much so I lost touch with western women so I have no Idea because i havent experience them for long time and i really don't care about dating more than I care about putting the work into complete surrender journey and true self-love and finding my purpose. I hope everyone get what they want in life and I hope they have patience and wisdom along with it.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Your place at Heart

[Leo Gura]

@Your place at Heart You are looking at all this from an egocentric perspective.

Try actually loving and understanding those whom you demonize if you really want to grow.

Don't worry about feminists. Worry about cleansing the doors of your perception.

[SgtPepper]

Yoooo Leo, I extremely resonated with your comments about Incels, dating, and attraction. You hit the nail.

I think, in one way, Elliot was trying to uplift and direct those people to actually take on MGTOW in a healthy and spiritual context.