I Think I've Discovered an Insight About So-Called Relativistic People

[Joseph Maynor]

People are only relativistic on matters that don't concern themselves.  Then they can safely be relativistic.  But the moment something concerns them watch their relativism fly out the window.  It's easy to play the role of the relativist when you don't have any skin in the game.  Then you can deny responsibility and play the relativist card easily, right.  But nobody is truly a relativist when they themselves are implicated in something.  I've never seen it, and I think it's total B.S.  It's easy to be a relativist when it comes to other people because you have no skin in the game.  And don't pretend that Enlightened people are relativists either, that's not true.  Relativism is a sneaky, apathetic, Ego move to deny taking responsibility for something that you don't have direct skin in the game on.  It's a cop-out basically, a rationalization.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Sven]

The only thing I can think of after reading your post is that, supposedly, Jesus Christ was hung on the cross and did not scream. Even though of course the rest of the people hung at the same time with him, did scream. But I don't know if this actually happened. If it did, that might be the ultimate form of relativism, right? Seeing that there was nothing else that could have happened there and thus accepting the pain completely?...

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Sven said:

The only thing I can think of after reading your post is that, supposedly, Jesus Christ was hung on the cross and did not scream. Even though of course the rest of the people hung at the same time with him, did scream. But I don't know if this actually happened. If it did, that might be the ultimate form of relativism, right? Seeing that there was nothing else that could have happened there and thus accepting the pain completely?...

Great example.  But would Jesus allow what happened if he could stop it?  Or would he tell himself to stop whining already and just go chill out.  Jesus is kind of a tricky example because it's not clear what the Ontological status of Jesus is.  Jesus could just very well be almost completely fiction.  And you could do anything with fiction.  In fiction, I could have a guy chop off his own member and fry it up and eat it with fava beans with a smile on his face.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Sven]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Great example.  But (...) this fiction stuff.

Yeah exactly. In that case my answer is: I don't know. I am simply not at a level of awareness (at all) where I can say "pain is just an emotion, which is experience, which is everything, thus it is me... thus there is not really any pain..." I can say this stuff conceptually, but not feel it in that way. Haha. But I wonder if that is even possible to begin with.

There is also stories of this monk who didn't think about anything in life at all except food. Literally the only thing he though about. So when not thinking about food, he was just being. Supposedly this was how he was able to hung on to his physical body and not die. Again though this is a story. I can't help any further here but I am curious if someone could.

[cirkussmile]

This goes hand in hand with open-mindedness. 

Some people can have an open mind when it comes to drugs or accepting other religions. But when it comes to open mind about changing their own beliefs, they’re not open minded anymore. 

Nice Joseph that you start threads. It definitly inspire others to also have the focus on helping instead of something else.  <3

[Aimblack]

Why so black and white? I can be relativistic on some issues that concern me and on others I'm not when I notice it or it gets pointed out to me I make it my task not to only take the relative position but to also embody it as much as possible.

Obviously I still fail in most cases because I still have an ego that's alive and kicking and that implies that me trying to see things from all perspectives means that there is a me who is fixed looking at things from different perspectives.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Aimblack

[Leo Gura]

Lol, of course ego-mind cannot be relativistic proper. Its job is to be self-biased. Survival, survival, survival.

Relativism can only be actualized through deep awakening and dissolution of the ego.

Then it is possible.

That's how a Buddhist monk can set himself one fire.

The fact is that everything is relative. But to accept this fully is tentamount to death. And only the wisest of human beings will surrender to this brutal truth.

Stage Green post-modernists are not truly relativistic. They are phoney relativists. They have not actualized ontological relativism. They have turned relativism into a religion.

Why is relativism so denied? Precisely because it is true. The ego cannot handle it.

[Forestluv]

@Joseph Maynor And those words are relative to other words. And those ideas are relative to other ideas.

To exist, something must be relative to something else. If one goes beyond relativity, everything stops making sense. Then there are no distinctions. There is nothing. 

Stuff appears relative to other stuff. It can be fun conceptualizing - yet it’s all just stuff that appears relative to other stuff that appears. 

Sometimes I notice people get attached to stuff to the point they think it is actually true. If they identify a self with it, they will defend what they perceive as “their stuff”. With an understanding of relativity, it is much easier to let go of attachents to stuff: beliefs, opinions, feelings, being right etc.

[RichardY]

Psalm 22 - I think Dogs refers more specifically to dogmatists. Straight from the unicorns mouth...


 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

[lmfao]

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

People are only relativistic on matters that don't concern themselves.  Then they can safely be relativistic.  But the moment something concerns them watch their relativism fly out the window.  It's easy to play the role of the relativist when you don't have any skin in the game.  Then you can deny responsibility and play the relativist card easily, right.  

Amen. 

It is extremely hard to be relativistic the moment shit gets personal for you, but it is possible to be so. If I've done a meditation session I'd like to think that for at least a few hours afterwards I'm relativistic for even personal things. But other than that, I find it very easy to fall into trap of getting pissed off with people and being quite angry at times. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by lmfao