Leo has fallen into the "Mind Reader Illusion" trap

[Geromekevin]

Leo recently released a video on the mind of Trump. Unfortunately he has fallen into the mind reader illusion.

If you have followed Scott Adams, who has predicted Trump's win way before anyone else, you will know this trap.

He described it in this blog post and this video with much detail.

Leo, if you read this, I urge you to at least read the blog post. Probably your own cognitive dissonance will not allow you to read it fully, even though you preach open mindedness constantly. But as everyone knows and as you, Leo, correctly pointed out many times, we are blind towards our own biases.

I hope this opens anyones eyes and sees the fallacies.

By the way, I think Scott's hypothesis are probably wrong, too.

[zoey101]

@Leo Gura 

[Leo Gura]

Scott Adams is a fool.

I'm not mind-reading. I'm just conscious of how my own ego works and therefore how all egos work.

Sniffing out bullshit like Trump's or Scott Adam's become very easy once you're conscious enough.

[Widdle Puppy]

I don't want to automatically dismiss anyone's opinion but can we at least not cite the cartoonist of Dilbert please 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Widdle Puppy

[RichardY]

@Leo Gura What if the fool is the closest to the truth? The fool being the only person able to tell the truth to the king? Perhaps like in Hamlet, skull and all.

Warton Business school. Capable of stringing more eloquent sentences together, but doesn't, would he have got elected, if he didn't at least play fool, or not. Guessing most business people will eat you alive, if they smell blood.

[Leo Gura]

@RichardY Are you trying to say Trump is not a moron?

Cause even all of his closest aids and colleagues acknowledge as much.

The only ones who think Trump is not a moron are those who are at roughly his level of consciousness.

[RichardY]

@Leo Gura  I don't really care if Trump is a moron or not. He's funny and amusing to me, and that's enough, illusion or not.

More interested in psychological cues to look for better teachers or examples, something to grow.
 

[CreamCat]

Trump is a clown telling the truth? I think he does serve the role of clown unconsciously in a sense.

According to "Trump and a post-truth world" written by Ken Wilber, Trump serves to expose the bad side of post-modernism. Post-modernists used to say there was no truth. After trump was elected as the president, he said there was no truth because news media that disagreed with him were fake news.  Post-modernists stopped saying there was no truth because Trump exposed the folly of saying "there is no truth". In a sense, trump exposed pathology of relativism through his actions and words.

Infinite intelligence put trump in the role of the president to force post-modernists to realize their own mistakes.

I think there's a lot of intelligence in trump's actions and words whether or not he is a moron.

Infinite intelligence is a real slap in the face. Infinite intelligence can make an idiot achieve big things. Trump is not doing intelligence. Intelligence is doing trump.

I guess his IQ would be a little higher than mine, but his EQ would be substantially lower than my EQ.

We should try to tap into infinite intelligence.

Edited September 8, 2018 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

@RichardY Well, as long as your juvenile mind is entertained I guess the rest of us can disregard all the human misery his administration is causing, from droning civilians to caging children to shredding environmental regulations.

[RichardY]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@RichardY Well, as long as your juvenile mind is entertained I guess the rest of us can disregard all the human misery his administration is causing, from droning civilians to caging children to shredding environmental regulations.

Good for you. Old chap. Nothing like some good old child caging, straightout of chitty bang bang.

[p1xelmonk]

lol leo trying to converse with trumptards  

[Geromekevin]

@Widdle Puppy You might want to try and be open minded. If you listen to him and read his articles you will see how accurately he predicts reality time and time again. And - contrary to other people who are not providing evidence that their models worked for predicting the future - he constantly goes back and tracks which of his predictions came true (spoiler: over 90% did).

It is easy to fit facts to the past in retrospect - that is called backwards rationalizing. It's much harder to foresee the future.

It might seem to @Leo Gura like his model perfectly explains everything. If you are actually open minded and look at other filter's for reality such as Scott's persuasion filter, you will see that both fit reality very well. One of them just might be better at predicting the future.

Maybe trying to rationally quantifying the results of ones mental model's of the world is too "stage orange."

I just feel it's remarkable how many people in this thread including Leo instantly started insulting instead of giving arguments. An emotional reaction without arguments is an indicator for cognitive dissonance. No one uses insults (or analogies / metaphors) if he has good reasons.

Let me suggest to look into Scott's persuasion filter and maybe use it as one of your filters to look at the world. You will see it explains and predicts a lot. For example just as Leo analyzed Trump's mind and politics and fit all of his variables to the current events, you can explain Leos behavior through the hypnotist's world view (= the persuasion filter).

God, I wish Leo would reach out to Scott and have a discussion with him. It feels like it would be equally as entertaining, interesting and enlightening as Scott's debate with Sam Harris.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Geromekevin

[Leo Gura]

@Geromekevin I would rather get kicked in the nuts than try to convince Scott Adams of his self-delusions.

There are some people who are beyond help. Trump, Sam Harris, Scott Adams, and JP are 4 of them.

There is no awakening a closed mind.

[Geromekevin]

@Leo Gura  Very true.

[Joseph Maynor]

I wouldn’t say Trump is a moron.  I think the words immature, crafty, and insanely competitive fit better.  It’s not an intelligence problem, it’s an immaturity problem.  To me, a moron is a dummy.  I don’t think Trump is a dummy.  Trump will do anything to win, including stooping lower than everyone else.  For Trump, winning is the only end.  That’s how I see it.  Win at all costs mentality with no scruples, but then also being highly manipulative about trying to spin things to his advantage rhetorically so his reputation doesn’t get tanked by his tactics.  Trump is highly socially manipulative.  Talk about being entangled in Maya.  His dad must have told him he was no good and wouldn’t amount to sh*t in life.  What Trump does is try to sell winning — he makes you feel like you are part of winning by being on his side.  He’s smart enough to know that works.  He’s very conniving in that he wins at all costs while also getting people on his side to boot.  That’s no dummy.   That’s a very manipulative, competitive personality.  A dummy would not be able to pull off what Trump does.  He seems like a moron on the surface sometimes, I agree, but I think it’s more of a win at all costs and immaturity issue at a deeper level.  Trump is also a master salesman of himself.  I watched that during the campaign.  He’s great with rhetoric and humor barbs too.  He’s a character who knows how to schmooze and get people on his side.  But he also creates a lot of enemies because of his take no prisoners style.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Shamrock]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I wouldn’t say Trump is a moron.  I think the words immature, crafty, and insanely competitive fit better.  It’s not an intelligence problem, it’s an immaturity problem.  To me, a moron is a dummy.  I don’t think Trump is a dummy.  Trump will do anything to win, including stooping lower than everyone else.  For Trump, winning is the only end.  That’s how I see it.  Win at all costs mentality with no scruples, but then also being highly manipulative about trying to spin things to his advantage rhetorically so his reputation doesn’t get tanked by his tactics.  Trump is highly socially manipulative.  Talk about being entangled in Maya.  His dad must have told him he was no good and wouldn’t amount to sh*t in life.  What Trump does is try to sell winning — he makes you feel like you are part of winning by being on his side.  He’s smart enough to know that works.  He’s very conniving in that he wins at all costs while also getting people on his side to boot.  That’s no dummy.   That’s a very manipulative, competitive personality.  A dummy would not be able to pull off what Trump does.  He seems like a moron on the surface sometimes, I agree, but I think it’s more of a win at all costs and immaturity issue at a deeper level.  Trump is also a master salesman of himself.  I watched that during the campaign.  He’s great with rhetoric and humor barbs too.  He’s a character who knows how to schmooze and get people on his side.  But he also creates a lot of enemies because of his take no prisoners style.

Well said Joseph. Much more nuanced critique than "Trump is a dummy." As someone who does not want to see Trump in 2020, not understanding Trump or why he won increases his chances of a 2nd term. That said I did think the system needed a maverick to shake the status quo up...Trump just has far too many deficiencies of character to make it work.

[Leo Gura]

My bad. He's not a moron.

He's...

Quote

"a fucking moron"      -- Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson

 

[Forestluv]

On 9/8/2018 at 4:15 PM, Leo Gura said:

@GeromekevinThere is no awakening a closed mind.

What about psychedelics? Could 100 ego-death trips with a variety of substances over a year open a closed mind? For me, there is no way my mental resistance would hold up. 

[Joseph Maynor]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My bad. He's not a moron.

"a fucking moron"      -- Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson

Working for Trump has gotta be insanely frustrating.  I feel for anybody who is doing that or has done that.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What about psychedelics? Could 100 ego-death trips with a variety of substances over a year open a closed mind? For me, there is no way my mental resistance would hold up. 

A closed mind will never take a psychedelic seriously.