Used to be a word was enough to recognize the self...

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Jack River Again, if by 'self' you mean anything other than your true nature (existence, consciousness, bliss) then I would have to disagree. Also I'm not really sure what is meant by "holistic movement of self."

Then there is no freedom. No holistic insight into what is not freedom then slavery continues. With slavery means self calls the shots. Means self feeds itself and hides it form itself. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

23 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

also. be sure that you aren't clinging to a trap on the path.

Thanks dude?. Thats the cool thing clinging ends. Clinging and identification same thing brah. 

[SoonHei]

@Jack River hmmm

i can definitely see the self/ego calling the shots. calling all the shots actually

 

i think adyashanti also speaks about this movement. unsure if faceless/robdl have had reviewed and learned from his work or also arrived at this point with their own investigation

 

anyhow. it's another way of looking at the end of the seeking. the end of seeking = understanding the self-feeding loop

 

the end occurs because the illusion is seen for what it is

 

am i on the right track-ish there?

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Jack River hmmm

i can definitely see the self/ego calling the shots. calling all the shots actually

 

i think adyashanti also speaks about this movement. unsure if faceless/robdl have had reviewed and learned from his work or also arrived at this point with their own investigation

 

anyhow. it's another way of looking at the end of the seeking. the end of seeking = understanding the self-feeding loop

 

the end occurs because the illusion is seen for what it is

 

am i on the right track-ish there?

Mother f-ing beautiful if you ask me

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

I have watched the whole guru gang in the past. Don’t really need to though. I have gone much further in the last month than the last 8 years of watching gurus just by watching myself and learning about thought in discussions with my brothers. 

[Misagh]

@Joseph Maynor Help me out here

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Joseph Maynor Help me out here

What do you need help with? What are you confused about that I’m saying?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

What do you need help with? What are you confused about that I’m saying?

Unless I am mistaken (which i may very well be), your approach to enlightenment is to bring the ego up to reach an enlightened state. What I am saying is that this approach will never work, and instead you should simply step out of the ego-game. 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Misagh said:

Unless I am mistaken (which i may very well be), your approach to enlightenment is to bring the ego up to reach an enlightened state

No that not at all what I mean dude. First off I don’t seek enlightenment. Second I don’t care about states. Freedom without desire of states. No psychological becoming. Not to feed that old tricky fear-self.  

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Fear seeks security always from itself to an abstraction. To avoid what is dudes 

[Misagh]

@Jack River Isn't seeking Freedom without desire of states itself seeking? And isn't freedom without desire of states itself a state?

[SoonHei]

14 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Mother f-ing beautiful if you ask me

LOLOL <3

 

3 minutes ago, Jack River said:

First off I don’t seek enlightenment. Second I don’t care about states. Freedom without desire of states. No psychological becoming. Notnto feed that old tricky fear.  

bless. this right here is the end of seeking. end of expecting/desiring 

nice!

also. as u said more progress in the last month vs the last 8 years

 

just goes to show, it really is that simple

 

one may save the time, as leo says, and many other enlightened beings say.. by focusing on really what's being asked to do (or not-do)

 

good for you.  

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Misagh said:

Isn't seeking Freedom without desire of states itself seeking?

No. It’s seeing the whole of what seeking leads to that ends seeking. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

@Misagh You start out well enough in recognizing the machinations of ego can bring too much theory then allow yourself to get dragged into excessive theory machinations in the thread. Which winds up with one of the more machination theorizing posters on the board suggesting if you can't see in theory the way they do you must not have 'freedom' and are still enslaved.

There is a lesson here...hehe

[Jack River]

To seek freedom is the same as seeking enlightenment. Seeking security in abstraction. Illusion 

[SoonHei]

2 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Jack River Isn't seeking Freedom without desire of states itself seeking? And isn't freedom without desire of states itself a state?

yes. seeking freedom without desire of states itself would indeed be sub-seeking

just like for example, the do nothing technique of meditation. if you "try" to do nothing, you are infact "doing" something...

 

i dont think @Jack River is seeking . that's just how he's describing it to us

and as you know, language isn't always the best tool

just pay attention to his pointers instead @Misagh

[Misagh]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Misagh You start out well enough in recognizing the machinations of ego can bring too much theory then allow yourself to get dragged into excessive theory machinations in the thread. Which winds up with one of the more machination theorizing posters on the board suggesting if you can't see in theory the way they do you must not have 'freedom' and are still enslaved.

There is a lesson here...hehe

The irony is not lost on me friend. I do not usually take the role of the guru, yet Leo seems to believe that there is more to 'it' than self-recognition. Wanted to try that for myself. That is the real lesson here for me

Edited September 7, 2018 by Misagh

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

just pay attention to his pointers instead @Misagh

More important attention to lack of attention made it clear to me. It was so simple but powerful

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

No theory is needed to watch yourself. What is going on in your daily experience is a not theory. It can be seen directly. Fesr feeding fear is not a theory. Fear seeking security in abstraction not a theory. It happens lol

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

Yes, daily experience and self observation aren't theory.

Yet, ego subtly convinces oneself that it's machinations aren't theory but is truth!

Then ego seeks the security of the self feeding loop in telling others if they don't theorize as it does they are enslaved and not free.

Haha

Edited September 7, 2018 by SOUL