Used to be a word was enough to recognize the self...

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Misagh said:

What do you mean by the complex self? Is this the Self or the structure of the ego? 

Little self or thought is complex. Always moving towards illusion.

[Jack River]

Feeding fear means continued illusion and self deception. Meaning not realized. Freedom means no fear feeding itself. 

[Misagh]

Well im confused because you call Ramana's teaching a game and say that engaging the little self is the way to go (which is the real illusion/game). 

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Misagh said:

Well im confused because you call Ramana's teaching a game and say that engaging the little self is the way to go (which is the real illusion/game). 

Sorry It was a game to me. I kept going in circles. I started that first 8 years ago. I’m sorry to say it like I did. Came off rude. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Misagh said:

 and say that engaging the little self is the way to go (which is the real illusion/game). 

I’m just saying attention to self means not feeding fear. If there is feeding fear illusion in still in control. Does that seem right to you?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

Just now, Jack River said:

I’m just saying attention to self means not feeding fear. If there is feeding fear illusion in still in control. 

No worries, im just clarifying things for myself

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Misagh said:

No worries, im just clarifying things for myself

It makes sense what I’m saying right?

so to feed fear prevents actualization of intelligence?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

@Jack River Yes  If you engage with the fear at any level it will only cause further illusion.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Misagh

[Jack River]

Just now, Misagh said:

Yes  If you engage with the fear at any level it will only cause further illusion.

Fosho. And the less this feeding the less fear arises naturally. 

[Jack River]

So identification with anything in general and desire seeking pleasure means fear is feeding itself. That is all born of feeding fear. So if we do all that we are not free, enlightened, actualizdd, realized, liberated? We then only understand conceptually or intellectual knowledge about being actualized and such. Means the most important thing was skipped. self reflection.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[SoonHei]

@Jack River have seen your recent posts. love them

 

which place are you speaking from now? are you now watchful/mindful of the fear-movement in everything you do and thereby are able to easily disassociate with it?

has your seeking ended and you are now slowly intergrating?

 

or just have had a deeper insight recently with the work of @robdl and faceless ?

 

also. be sure that you aren't clinging to a trap on the path.

 

thanks

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

have seen your recent posts. love them

 

which place are you speaking from now? are you now watchful/mindful of the fear-movement in everything you do and thereby are able to easily disassociate with it?

has your seeking ended and you are now slowly intergrating?

First off thank you. I have been puting all my energy into attention to movement of fear. I am not feeding it. There may be a moment here and there where I do. But there is attention to it and it fades. In a month i would say more that 95 percent of fear isn’t fed in my daily life. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

has your seeking ended and you are now slowly intergrating?

Yeah I see seeking as it arises and don’t feed it. It’s the same thing as feeding fear

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

or just have had a deeper insight recently with the work of @robdl and faceless ?

 

also. be sure that you aren't clinging to a trap on the path.

 

Those guys are the opposite of a trap. Actually everything we go through I see actually in myself. They are the first to show these traps. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

So identification with anything in general and desire seeking pleasure means fear is feeding itself. That is all born of feeding fear. So if we do all that we are not free, enlightened, actualizdd, realized, liberated? We then only understand conceptually or intellectual knowledge about being actualized and such. Means the most important thing was skipped. self reflection.

19 minutes ago, Jack River said:

 

You seem to assume that fear is the main cause for ignorance, while false identification is the main cause; whether it's identification with fear, lust, envy, happiness etc etc. 

"So if we do all that we are not free, enlightened, actualizdd, realized, liberated?"

Not really. Like I said before, you CAN be liberated and there still be an ego who is engaged in all that activity. Liberation is misidentification with the ego, not its elimination. All those things (the ego, the "I", fear, hatred etc) are all either thoughts or emotions. Either way they are illusion.

"the most important thing was skipped. self reflection." 

This is not really the most important thing. If by self-reflection you mean contemplating on thoughts/feelings, i say it's a waste of time (hence the trash analogy), although someone like Leo disagrees with me on this point. 

[Jack River]

Just now, Misagh said:

You seem to assume that fear is the main cause for ignorance, while false identification is the main cause; whether it's identification with fear, lust, envy, happiness etc etc. 

Same thing. 

[Misagh]

@Jack River 

26 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Same thing. 

Fear is only ONE emotion that can be mistakingly identified with, and hence cause ignorance. It is not everything. 

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Misagh said:

This is not really the most important thing. If by self-reflection you mean contemplating on thoughts/feelings, i say it's a waste of time (hence the trash analogy), although someone like Leo disagrees with me on this point. 

Contemplation is a waste without attention to self. Not contemplating content of self. But watching holistic movement of self. 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Jack River 

Fear is only ONE emotion that can be mistakingly identified with, and hence cause ignorance. It is not everything. 

Freedom as in seeing holistically doesn’t see in parts like that. Fear and identification are the same movement of psychological becoming. There is only freedom when assumed seperate parts are seen as they actually are as a one single movement. Thought-ego sees things as separate. If we see the movement of self as seperate parts we can’t be attentive to its complex movement 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

@Jack River Again, if by 'self' you mean anything other than your true nature (existence, consciousness, bliss) then I would have to disagree. Also I'm not really sure what is meant by "holistic movement of self."