Used to be a word was enough to recognize the self...

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actualized.org's goals go way beyond

How lucky are we for that? 

Infinite thanks Leo.

❤️

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Somebody’s going to have to define enlightenment, and nonduality, objectively first. 

?

Good point dude..can there be objective standpoint without freedom?

[Misagh]

@Nahm Unbroken abidance in the Self is enlightenment. Don't care much about what nonduality means. 

[Jack River]

Just now, Misagh said:

Unbroken abidance in the Self is enlightenment. Don't care much about what nonduality means. 

What does unbroken abidence mean simply?

[Misagh]

@Jack River Being immersed in the Self. It means that you recognize your true self to exist, to be intelligent, and to be in bliss. This awareness is constant without there being someone (I) who is aware.

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Jack River Being immersed in the Self. It means that you recognize your true self to exist, to be intelligent, and to be in bliss. This awareness is constant without there being someone (I) who is aware.

Fosho.. can a human being that has gone beyond psychological enslavement be still caught in identification with religion, and chase pleasure. Slave to desire?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

From what “I” see in others who say they’re enlightened it is much more superficial than the nondual. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Misagh said:

@Nahm Unbroken abidance in the Self is enlightenment. Don't care much about what nonduality means. 

Exactly.  I think along similar lines.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Misagh]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Fosho.. can a human being that has gone beyond psychological enslavement be still caught in identification with religion, and chase pleasure. Slave to desire?

Yes. In the sense that the ego can still exist and still be enslaved, although the Self is also recognized and no longer identified with it. The ego is usually eventually dismantled, since it takes energy to uphold its illusions, and the Self no longer feeds it that energy. 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Misagh said:

Yes. In the sense that the ego can still exist and still be enslaved, although the Self is also recognized and no longer identified with it. The ego is usually eventually dismantled, since it takes energy to uphold its illusions, and the Self no longer feeds it that energy. 

So fear stops feeding itself right? No fear, no desire looking for security in pleasure and such. Thought then free of subject bias and such. So that is expressed in all aspects of life. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

If fear keeps feeding itself how can there be freedom?

[Misagh]

17 minutes ago, Jack River said:

So fear stops feeding itself right? No fear, no desire looking for security in pleasure and such. Thought then free of subject bias and such. So that is expressed in all aspects of life. 

Yes. My point was that the ego does not immediately die with self-recognition. 

[Jack River]

Just now, Misagh said:

Yes. My point was that the ego does not immediately die with self-recognition. 

I wouldn’t use ego here. We can just use fear. If we feed fear it continues right?

[Misagh]

11 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I wouldn’t use ego here. We can just use fear. If we feed fear it continues right?

I refrain from saying "If we feed fear it continues." because I rarely ever bother with the content of my mind (not a psychologist). I just throw it all out to immerse myself in the Self. 

There is a good teaching by Ramana which is particularly instructive here:

If you are asked to throw out the trash, you throw out the trash. You don't go through the garbage bag, examining every single piece one by one.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Misagh said:

I refrain from saying "If we feed fear it continues." because I rarely ever bother with the content of my mind (not a psychologist

Not content. The i is the content. Talking about watching the movement itself. This is not gone through ever by people. Seems to be the biggest problem in actual change. Psychologist lol nice. Psychologist work goes into content. That doesn’t work. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Misagh]

@Jack River I don't seem to understand what you are saying. You might wanna explain your position  

[Jack River]

Yeah I played the Romana game a little in the beginning. Didnt go deep enough into the the complex self. 

[Misagh]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

Yeah I played the Romana game a little in the beginning. Didnt go deep enough into the the complex self. 

What do you mean by the complex self? Is this the Self or the structure of the ego? 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Misagh said:

@Jack River I don't seem to understand what you are saying. You might wanna explain your position  

 

7 minutes ago, Misagh said:

I refrain from saying "If we feed fear it continues." because I rarely ever bother with the content of my mind (not a psychologist

I just mean the content of our mind is the self 

[Misagh]

@Jack River One question: are you self-realized?