Used to be a word was enough to recognize the self...

[Misagh]

There is too much theory and it's all the machinations of the ego.

[Leo Gura]

There is more to this work then recognizing the self.

Your approach is way too simplistic.

[Misagh]

But is there really? Or is that the mark of an ego who can never be satisfied? 

[Sashaj]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is more to this work then recognizing the self.

Your approach is way too simplistic.

You think that? Can you clarify? 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Misagh said:

But is there really? Or is that the mark of an ego who can never be satisfied? 

Yes, really.

Not everything is ego.

Minds are good tools when used properly.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Sashaj said:

You think that? Can you clarify? 

Do not confuse enlightenment for development.

You can be enlightened but still at a crude, ethnocentric level of development, or at a crude level of moral, emotional, sexual, or political developement.

[Sashaj]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Do not confuse enlightenment for development.

You can be enlightened but still at a crude, ethnocentric level of development, or at a crude level of moral or emotional developement.

Oh I see what you’re saying. All good

But that stuff can come after the “enlightenment” that most people are here for. Right? Actually, I don’t know what most other people are here for!

[SchallUndRauch]

Enlightenment and development are synergistic processes.

[Sashaj]

1 minute ago, SchallUndRauch said:

Enlightenment and development are synergistic processes.

That claim is 40% true and 60% bullshit 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Sashaj said:

Oh I see what you’re saying. All good

But that stuff can come after the “enlightenment” that most people are here for. Right? Actually, I don’t know what most other people are here for!

Actually mostly the opposite.

The percentage of the population who are at a stage of development where they can pursue enlightenment is extremely low.

Most people will require 10-20 years of ordinary personal dev work before they can seriously pursue enlightenment. Because they are not ripe for it.

I am not a strict enlightenment teacher, and Actualized.org's goals go way beyond what people like Tolle or Mooji or Ramana taught.

We have a much broader scope here, attempting to understand all dimensions of life: sexual, political, social, emotional, physical, philosophical, scientific, astral, religious, linguistic, motivational, business, leadership, ecology, art, etc.

We do not stop or start with nonduality.

[Sashaj]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Actually mostly the opposite.

The percentage of the population who are at a stage of development where they can pursue enlightenment is extremely low.

Most people will requires 10-20 years of ordinary personal dev work before they can seriously pursue enlightenment. Because they are not ripe for it.

I am not a strict enlightenment teacher and Actualized.org's goal goes way beyond what people like Tolle or Mooji or Ramana taught.

Ah ok I get it now

Your house, no issues from me sir

But I’ll still drop a bit of magical excrement every now and then for the ripe ones if you don’t mind

[Misagh]

How is

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually mostly the opposite.

The percentage of the population who are at a stage of development where they can pursue enlightenment is extremely low.

Most people will requires 10-20 years of ordinary personal dev work before they can seriously pursue enlightenment. Because they are not ripe for it.

I am not a strict enlightenment teacher and Actualized.org's goal goes way beyond what people like Tolle or Mooji or Ramana taught.

How is this: 

You can be enlightened but still at a crude, ethnocentric level of development, or at a crude level of moral, emotional, sexual, or political developement.

and this:

Most people will requires 10-20 years of ordinary personal dev work before they can seriously pursue enlightenment. Because they are not ripe for it.

be true at the same time?

The latter is simply not the case. Being already enlightened, ALL souls are ready to self-recognize, at every moment. It is simply the strength of the stimulus that starts the process that has to be stronger than the individual's attachments. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Misagh

[Leo Gura]

@Misagh It is predominately the case!

Human development tends to be very lopsided.

You can have an enlightened person with poor social skills and who is a horny dog who molests his students. Or he could be a sociopath who starts a cult.

You could have an enlightened person who thinks all religons except Christianity are wrong.

[Misagh]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Misagh It is predominately the case!

Human development tends to be very lopsided.

You can have an enlightened person with poor social skills and who is a horny dog who molests his students. Or he could be a sociopath who starts a cult.

You could have an enlightened person who thinks all religons except Christianity are wrong.

Yes of course! I agree with this, but not with saying that most people are not ready to be enlightened if they don't at least spend 10-20 years developing their egos first. That is what I meant by: 

"The latter is simply not the case. Being already enlightened, ALL souls are ready to self-recognize, at every moment. It is simply the strength of the stimulus that starts the process that has to be stronger than the individual's attachments."

Unless I misunderstood what you meant by the phrase "ready for enlightenment."

If you mean to say some individuals should not be enlightened before having good moral/political sense, because they would wreak havoc on the world, I understand what you mean -even though I do not agree with it.

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Misagh

[Jack River]

freedom doesn’t depend of time. The sooner that is realized the sooner there is freedom When there is psychological freedom all aspects of life are in check. Then that freedom is expressed in politics and what ever. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

When I’m free there is no identifying with a religion, race, gender. No molesting, no cult starting. this is the sign of a bullshiter. Person that only understands intellectually about there idea of enlightenment. Lol person caught in there own ? 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Joseph Maynor]

6 hours ago, Misagh said:

There is too much theory and it's all the machinations of the ego.

This is true, but the problem is if you don't have the keen Awareness to fully see Ego, how can you avoid it?  It takes quite a bit of work to get to the point where you fully know what Ego is.  Sure, from the Perspective of Enlightened Stage Coral, your sentiment rings true without any further explanation needed.  The statement you made is like Michael Jordan telling everybody that playing basketball is super easy.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

4 hours ago, Misagh said:

If you mean to say some individuals should not be enlightened before having good moral/political sense, because they would wreak havoc on the world, I understand what you mean -even though I do not agree with it.

Until Freedom there is no moral. Liberated humans are the most responsible. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

If we are willing to put constant attention on our reactions through the day that is the sign of sombody who really understands how important freedom is. To be aware of unawareness all day everyday is the hardest thing to do. Understanding ourselves seems to come last for some reason though. 

[Nahm]

Somebody’s going to have to define enlightenment, and nonduality, objectively first. 

?