Is it a bad idea to study Ken Wilber?

[brugluiz]

Hi, guys!

I was having a discussion with a guy and he told me it's not worthy to learn about the self (the concept of self used by transpersonal therapists) with Ken Wilber because he's not an enlightened being (he's not a Buda as this guy said).

This guy said to me he meditates for more than 2 years and found peace states during his meditations (it seems he's using a meditation technique called Japa).

I'm reading a Ken Wilber's book called A Visão Integral (English title is The Integral Vision). I'm finding the book fascinating and it's helping me to understand concepts of human consciousness.

I'm not sure of how I should interpret the perspective of this guy. Is it possible I'm delluding myself by studying Ken Wilber?

[Forestluv]

Go for it. KW is brilliant.

Study a variety of topics and perspectives. They are all partial truths. 

[brugluiz]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Go for it. KW is brilliant.

Study a variety of topics and perspectives. They are all partial truths. 

Thank you, @Serotoninluv!

Wilber's perspective is really fascinating, but there are many other stuff to study.

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

Thank you, @Serotoninluv!

Wilber's perspective is really fascinating, but there are many other stuff to study.

For sure. It’s so exciting!

[Rilles]

People dont have to be Enlightened Masters for you to listen to them, if you only read that then it would eliminate alot of good reading wouldnt it?

[Misagh]

I don't know much about KW but I do think he is self-realized. From what I understand he is also very into shadow-work stuff which I think is a waste of time. 

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Misagh said:

he is also very into shadow-work stuff which I think is a waste of time. 

That is a huge mistake.

Shadow work is central to spiritual work. Without it, you will become a Zen devil.

Ken Wilber is beyond what most people here can fathom.

Underestimate teachers at your own peril.

[Misagh]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is a huge mistake.

Shadow work is central to spiritual work. Without it, you will become a Zen devil.

Ken Wilber is beyond what most people here can fathom.

Underestimate teachers at your own peril.

Being a Zen devil is only a concern for the individual who is interested in making the world a better place. If a soul's Karma determines that one is to be the devil, no amount of shadow work will change that fate, it might even make things worse.

Moreover, sometimes it is necessary for an individual to be a Zen devil, to wash away some past karma, like some huge injustice in a past life that needs to be emotionally discharged.

For SOME individuals who have been immersed in the self for a while, goodness comes naturally (often when they are in the state of sleep with awareness, past nirvikalpa Samadhi), those will do good regardless of whether they have been taught to do so or not.

Sometimes, Shiva take on his multi-armed form, and becomes the destroyer of worlds. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Misagh

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Misagh said:

Being a Zen devil is only a concern for the individual who is interested in making the world a better place. If a soul's Karma determines that one is to be the devil, no amount of shadow work will change that fate, it might even make things worse.

Lol

By that logic we should not teach children math, or train dogs not to piss indoors, or teach anyone nonduality.

If their karma is right, all of those things will happen spontaneously.

-----

Be careful how you apply your absolute insights in the relative domain. Or such absurdities as above will result.

To teach nonduality without shadow work is downright irresponsible.

Every serious spiritual tradition has strong injunctions against Zen devilry. Making a better world is part of the package, not optional.

No one wants to live with Nazis and criminals.

[Misagh]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

By that logic we should not teach children math, or train dogs not to piss indoors, or teach anyone nonduality.

If their karma is right, all of those things will happen spontaneously.

-----

Be careful how you apply your absolute insights in the relative domain. Or such absurdities as above will result.

To teach nonduality without shadow work is downright irresponsible.

Every serious spiritual tradition has strong injunctions against Zen devilry. Making a better world is part of the package, not optional.

No one wants to live with Nazis and criminals.

@Leo Gura Can we merge this discussion and the other one (about what is egoic action and what is not) into one topic? I think this a very good topic to satsang for the enlightened ones, If you are interested.

[Shadowraix]

3 hours ago, Misagh said:

Being a Zen devil is only a concern for the individual who is interested in making the world a better place. If a soul's Karma determines that one is to be the devil, no amount of shadow work will change that fate, it might even make things worse.

And some people will just not be able to follow nonduality no matters how much they try.

Does that mean the work itself is pointless? No.

Yes there is potential such shadow work may just not 'work' but that doesn't imply its a waste of time for everyone.

Its more accurate to say what intentions such shadow work can satisfy and for people to decide if those satisfactions are what they are after.

[brugluiz]

22 hours ago, Rilles said:

People dont have to be Enlightened Masters for you to listen to them, if you only read that then it would eliminate alot of good reading wouldnt it?

I think so. You can at least learn about their perspective.