I Can't Comprehend Non-Duality

[Jack River]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

Gotcha. How about something that doesn’t take skill? Imagine a person walking to the edge of the grand canyon. The moment they see the canyon they are awe-struck. Their jaw drops as they stand in awe for 10 seconds. Speechless and thoughtless. Would you consider this an experience?

My perception is very mind-body oriented. It’s hard for me to conceptualize experience as mind thought. For example, intuition is on par with thought for me.

Cool. I have to go right this second. But I will get back on soon man. This is cool stuff. Hang low for while. Be back soon dude. 

[Forestluv]

? 

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

How about something that doesn’t take skill?

Yeah dude. I notice that without getting involved with somthing the doesn’t involve me respond with thought that reaction is less likely for sure. 

 

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Imagine a person walking to the edge of the grand canyon. The moment they see the canyon they are awe-struck. Their jaw drops as they stand in awe for 10 seconds.

Yep. Seems like there is a slight moment before thought or recognition enters in. I think it varies on the “person” though. I had a “experience” about a month before coming on to this forum. It is what really got me interested in this. I had just got done with some surf action. I was laying on my board in the water when I realized some number of moments later that I had been empty of thought or experience. It was crazy man. Ever since I it has been interesting to me. But yes thought seems to come in a moment later after the perception. 

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

My perception is very mind-body oriented. It’s hard for me to conceptualize experience as mind thought

Yeah i have gone into this with faceless and robdl a lot. But mind, thought, conceptualization is all of the same movement. It’s hard for “our” perception To see its own movement as a whole. 

The way I see it is “The my perception” is mind/body reaction. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Similar for you @Serotoninluv?

[Jack River]

@Serotoninluv so I don’t consider the moment before responses of thought as experience. Fosho man. 

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Yep. Seems like there is a slight moment before thought or recognition enters in. 

I mean that no thought enters. A person is aware and is in awe for twenty seconds. The first thought that arises could have nothing to do with the view. It could be “I’m hungry” and then a train of thoughts about lunch arises.

I would consider that event an experience - even though there were no thoughts associated with it.

Sometimes I have stretches a few minutes without a thought. It still seems like an experience to me. Why do thoughts need to be part of experience? 

[Jack River]

Yeah I got you. I would say for me it was like a few minutes but I can’t say for sure. It was only once. 

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

The first thought that arises could have nothing to do with the view. It could be “I’m hungry” and then a train of thoughts about lunch arises.

Yep. Thought and the me go hand and hand or this is identification with thought. 

 

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Sometimes I have stretches a few minutes without a thought.

Yep. Faceless seems to go for really long periods of time empty of experience all all the time. My “experience” matches very similar to his. I agree man. 

 

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It still seems like an experience to me.

Yep. Experiencing without experiencer or identification with thought/senses. I see what you mean dude. 

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Why do thoughts need to be part of experience? 

Is thought the response of experience, knowledge, memory, to you? 

[Jack River]

Or when we experience somthing means to recognize it. Not that dude? We like instantly name somthing and such

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Jack River Thought is an impulse. Intuition is also an impulse. There can be empathy impulses. They all contribute to the experience. They are like different languages. Sometimes one is more prominent than another. Other times it’s a mixture. I went to an art festival last weekend and was in an empathic operating mode. As I look back on it, thinking wasn’t much if the experience. Other times, I go into thinking mode. Thinking is a handy tool sometimes. 

Occasionally I speak with no thought. It’s just speaking. It’s weird and cool at the same time 

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Thought is an impulse. Intuition is also an impulse.

Reaction fosho. Intuition being  thought. Feelings, emotions, thinking. One movement of thought. We can only refer to that movement by “the me” identifying  

 

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Other times it’s a mixture

Right dude. sensory, and thought or “me” identifies with the sensory response. 

 

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I went to an art festival last weekend and was in an empathic operating mode. As I look back on it, thinking wasn’t much if the experience. Other times, I go into thinking mode. Thinking is a handy tool sometimes. 

I feel ya. I notice now that what I use to think of as empathy was actually a response to fear. Like I only felt empathy if I imageined my self in that certain situation. Of thought 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[cetus]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Thinking is a handy tool sometimes. 

@Serotoninluv A single pointed thought can hold great power. With a well focused thought you can hover above yourself and watch.

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Serotoninluv A single pointed thought can hold great power. With a well focused thought you can hover above yourself and watch.

Fosho. Few moths ago I would not even understand what you just said 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Different cultures have different ways of life that are true relative to that culture.

For example: One culture would view eating insects as disgusting and animalistic. Another culture could view eating insects as a necessary part of their life to survive. Another culture could view eating insects as a delicacy.

So which view is true? Well, they all are - what’s true is relative to the culture.

Someone at the Green Stage would see this cultural relativism and believe that all these cultural views should have equality and inclusion. Yet, Green can get into thinking “I’m right. We should all treat these views as equal and include them in a multicultural community.”.

A Green can see the cultural relativism, yet can’t see that their own beliefs about equality and inclusion is relative to them. They see their belief as true and orange/blue perspectives as wrong.

Very well said. Right on the money.

[Jack River]

19 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Serotoninluv A single pointed thought can hold great power. With a well focused thought you can hover above yourself and watch.

This focus or concentration/identification or desire/me seems to fuel this impulse of thought to respond. I been spending day and night getting at this 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

 

20 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Serotoninluv A single pointed thought can hold great power. With a well focused thought you can hover above yourself and watch.

I had a powerful experience in a sensory deprivation tank with one word: Genuine.

It was mindblowing.

[Jack River]

Be amazed how much we are not aware that thought is flowing 

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

I had a powerful experience in a sensory deprivation tank with one word: Genuine.

It was mindblowing.

Nice. 

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Intuition being  thought

That’s not what I’ve been working with. It’s intuition as intuition.

Intuition and thinking are two different modes, yet can communicate with each other. Similiar to vision and hearing. Most people seem to have a poorly developed, or repressed, intuition system.