I Can't Comprehend Non-Duality

[Jack River]

20 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

So, to engage with criticism at all is a Lure into Maya a.k.a. a Lure into Thought and Experience.

So to engage with criticism is clinging to identification with thought right. Identification meaning attachment to what is known. Right?

[Saumaya]

21 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don’t agree with how Leo put the meat on the bones in a lot of what he says in the video, but I agree with his conclusion because all criticism is just my Experience fighting itself.  Here’s a Journal post I wrote to explain in more detail.

WHY IS ALL CRITICISM UNTENABLE? — REFERENCING LEO’S VIDEO OF THE SAME TITLE

Because it’s just my Experience fighting itself.  All criticism is happing inside my Consciousness in my illusory Thought and  Experience.  So, to engage with criticism at all is a Lure into Maya a.k.a. a Lure into Thought and Experience.  What I am as ‘God Awareness’ looks down on and through all illusory Thought and Experience.  Therefore to engage in criticism at all is to forget my true Self.  Sure criticism will happen, but I don’t need to cling to it, take it personally, or lose myself in it.  All criticism is basically a distraction, a Lure into embedding my Awareness within illusory Thought and Experience.

I agree, I guess criticism can be necessary sometimes but it's best not to get lost in it too much, losing what we originally were meant to criticize. Criticism gives rise to thesis and anthises which leads to synthesis. That's the only thing it's good for

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

I agree, I guess criticism can be necessary sometimes but it's best not to get lost in it too much, losing what we originally were meant to criticize. Criticism gives rise to thesis and anthises which leads to synthesis. That's the only thing it's good for

To determine correct or incorrect information? Because anyone can have incorrect info right dude? 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Like to communicate. If there is identification with certain information then the communication is corrupted. Fear forming a barrier in communicating. That what are saying @Saumaya?

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

To determine correct or incorrect information? Because anyone can have incorrect info right dude? 

Maybe. What I meant is, criticism, can lead to synthesis of two different perspectives. In the end it comes down why someone is critising. As I said, being right doesn't matter, and, that is like experience fighting itself as Joseph said.

[ajasatya]

logic has its use but intellectual pride is a curse.

the avatar of the smart/high consciousness/enlightened one is a huge trap.

this is why true humility of heart is so rare.

[Saumaya]

Just now, Jack River said:

Like to communicate. If there is identification with certain information then the communication is corrupted. Fear forming a barrier in communicating. That what are saying @Saumaya?

Definitely, identifying with a perspective will lead to preserving and defending that perspective, and not see the other perspective clearly.

[Jack River]

Just now, Saumaya said:

Maybe. What I meant is, criticism, can lead to synthesis of two different perspectives. In the end it comes down why someone is critising. As I said, being right doesn't matter, and, that is like experience fighting itself as Joseph said.

I am following dude. Fusion or union on a subject or conversation 

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

logic has its use but intellectual pride is a curse.

the avatar of the smart/high consciousness/enlightened one is a huge trap.

this is why true humility of heart is so rare.

Fosho dude. Without humility thought is incoherent. 

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Definitely, identifying with a perspective will lead to preserving and defending that perspective, and not see the other perspective clearly.

Seems pretty dang reasonable dude. It’s pretty easy to tell when there is this identification. I usually kinda just stop trying if I see it’s going nowhere. 

[Saumaya]

@Jack River Even if the other party's perspective is pretty much incorrect. The synthesis can lead to greater understanding of the correct perspective. The key is to try to understand where the other person is coming from. Trying to be right is never the way. It's like blinding our eyes. If both or even one of the party is ready, some kind of union would happen.

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Even if the other party's perspective is pretty much incorrect.

Right. But sometimes there are signals of this identification or resistance. Has to be both willing to listen without holding to there bias/thought. 

 

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

The key is to try to understand where the other person is coming from. Trying to be right is never the way. It's like blinding our eyes. If both or even one of the party is ready, some kind of union would happen.

Right. Sometimes it can happen if one side is willing and the other let there gaurd down by observing what seems to be genuine intention of the other. But unless that is so communication is a two way street. Right dude? 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Toby]

1 hour ago, Saumaya said:

Enlightenment doesn't come in many shape or forms, again, to say that would be to say there are more than one absolute truths; that is ridiculous.

I don't think so. There are different perspectives that can be seen and spoken from. This has to do more with embodiment on different levels as "realizing the truth" clearly is just realizing and not "enlightenment". You know the whole "different facets of the diamond"-thing where each facet looks complete but is in itself not the whole diamond. And that's exactly why I would recommend @Joseph Maynor to visit a competent teacher as there are plenty of good ones where he lives like Adyashanti, Jon Bernie or Mukti. But what do I know... I don't consider myself enlightened.

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Toby said:

I don't think so. There are different perspectives that can be seen and spoken from. This has to do more with embodiment on different levels as "realizing the truth" clearly is just realizing and not "enlightenment". You know the whole "different facets of the diamond"-thing where each facet looks complete but is in itself not the whole diamond. And that's exactly why I would recommend @Joseph Maynor to visit a competent teacher as there are plenty of good ones where he lives like Adyashanti, Jon Bernie or Mukti. But what do I know... I don't consider myself enlightened.

The different perspectives of diamond thing is for expressing the truth. Not truth itself. I'm talking about Absolute Truth here, not a relative one. Truth as truth cannot be expressed, expressing it in dualistic language will lead to the diamond thing

[Saumaya]

5 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Right. But sometimes there are signals of this identification or resistance. Has to be both willing to listen without holding to there bias/thought. 

Yes, a two way communication will lead to greater understanding of both the parties

[Jack River]

Just now, Saumaya said:

Yes, a two way communication will lead to greater understanding of both the parties

Can’t be any psychological seeking basically on either side to come together. 

[Toby]

@Saumaya yeah but Absolute Truth is not "Enlightenment". At least not from what I see (right now). It's really easy to confuse teachings from enlightened dudes that focus on realizing the Absolute (Ramana, Nisargadatta) and think that's it. But hey, what do I know. That's just my little theory.

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Can’t be any psychological seeking basically on either side to come together. 

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

 

@Jack River yes, that would break the communication

[Toby]

12 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What's funny is I keep asking you to provide a reason why I need a teacher and you never give one.

Because that teacher might point out things you are unable to see for yourself. That is the main reason.

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Toby said:

@Saumaya yeah but Absolute Truth is not "Enlightenment". At least not from what I see (right now). It's really easy to confuse teachings from enlightened dudes that focus on realizing the Absolute (Ramana, Nisargadatta) and think that's it. But hey, what do I know. That's just my little theory.

Then what is enlightenment lol