Martin Ball's Denial of 'Subtle Energies'

[The Blind Sage]

Martin Balls 'Being Human' (on Leo's book list) is a fantastic read-cuts straight to the point about how psychedelics should be used in a no bullshit manner. However, I have a few concerns over what he mentions. 

Subtle energies (Chakras) Do not exist are bullshit

1. On one of Leo's blog posts, he mentions that he was wrong about chakras and they do exist

2. Leo mentioned he was going to work on a video on chakras in his 'going Bhudda episode'

3. I have had an experience of my 'third eye' opening. After a meditation session, I sat down without a single thought in my mind, simply observing, utterly present. Suddenly, the centre of my forehead (where people say the third eye is located) starts to pulsate like a flashlight turning on and off on nearly empty batteries. Things start to become wavy, like I'm tripping on some psychedelic, then my vision abruptly goes dark. I could still feel my body but I could not see it. I felt as if there was something beyond this darkness, almost as if it were a veil, but every time I felt I got close to something my heart would beat and fear would take over-I dont even know what I feared! I wasn't scared of anything in particular, it was almost like a preset response... I shifted between this wavy vision and darkness for about 30 seconds until the experience just faded. Anyways, I'm not claiming I know chakras exist as I don't quite understand what I've experienced, but chakras do seem like the most likely explanation.

Reading the book left me extremely confused to say the least.

Also, as a side-note: martin mentions the notion of nothingness being the ultimate reality is false

Could anyone explain what it could be if not nothingness?

I'm 20 years old and have only begun my personal development journey for the last 2 years, only 1 of which have I known about non-duality. I have read 0 books on enlightenment/consciousness/nonduality (that will change to hundreds over the years) and mostly base my knowledge from Leos videos, so I apologise if this is a bit of shit question, its quite confusing to see read book titles such as 'god is nothingness' and hear contradictory things from someone like Martin Ball, both of which whom seem like trust able sources. Any clarification would be much appreciated.

[Leo Gura]

In the Absolute sense nothing exists. You gotta be careful not to conflate relative and absolute statements.

If chakras exist, they exist relatively, in the way that your brain exists relatively.

[MarkusSweden]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the Absolute sense nothing exists. You gotta be careful not to conflate relative and absolute statements.

If chakras exist, they exist relatively, in the way that your brain exists relatively.

But Leo, how ever you twist it, reality is utterly crazy. 

Just look at these two facts. 

1. From absolute perspective everything is consciousness, 'matter' is nothing but consciousness, the "consciousness only"-model by Rupert Spira describes it very well what is going on from the absolute perspective.

2.  From the relative perspective, the world/matter is the OPPOSITE of consciousness. Matter is dense, has form, is solid, is finite, has objective qualities, is a thing etcetera. Where as consciousness is transparent, infinite, empty, no-thingness etcetera. This is all true from the relative perspective.

Is so stupid is a way. Up is down and down is up depending on what perspective you choose. 

Utterly utterly crazy and stupid. I agree life can be pleasant and be absent of suffering. But it can NEVER make sense, It can never be sane.  

Edited September 6, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Leo Gura]

@MarkusSweden

No, #2 is false even from the relative POV. Quantum mechanics has told you that matter does not exist for over 100 years. You just have a very outdated model of matter and reality.

SCIENCE tells you that there is no such thing as physical reality! All there are, are infinite quantum fields. There are no particles!

What's stupid are your ideas of reality. That's all.

Surrender your ideas, and your stupidity will disappear.

[SOUL]

Quote

Surrender your ideas, and your stupidity will disappear.

Mm hm....

[The Blind Sage]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In the Absolute sense nothing exists. You gotta be careful not to conflate relative and absolute statements.

If chakras exist, they exist relatively, in the way that your brain exists relatively.

I see...This is warping my mind in the strange-loopiest way lol.

Thanks for everything Leo.

[Joseph Maynor]

Technically the only thing that exists is God Awareness.  Relative existence is an illusion.  You have God Awareness that exists and then the Maya of Experience and Thought which are both totally empty and illusory.  The Metaphysics is very simple.  But you have to get to the place where the Metaphysics becomes simple.  When the Metaphysics is complex, that's you clinging to Thought.  But see, Thought is all occurring within Consciousness.  Thought is basically a sensation that we get mesmerized with kind of like a bird seeing another bird in one of those tiny mirrors placed in bird cages not realizing that it's looking at itself.  Every Thought and Experience is basically just a sensation inside your Consciousness that your Awareness is potentially distracted by.  And the downside of that is you lose sense of who you are.  You still have Awareness, but you forget that everything is inside your own Consciousness without anything behind it -- which is why you don't have God Awareness.  The Mind fills in the gaps and takes the Maya to be what's real 'out there' and the Awareness to be something trivial that exists 'in here'.  It's entirely like getting lost in a movie.  There's nothing behind the movie, yet it feels so real when we lose ourselves in one.  Once your Mindfulness goes to a 10, you'll stop filling in all those gap and reality will look very different to you from that point forward.  You'll realize that the only thing that exists is Consciousness a.k.a. God Awareness which is being constantly distracted by a bunch of lifeless zombie sensations (i.e. Thought and Experience).  When you can look at those sensations and see exactly what's there, Metaphysics becomes very simple.  The problem is that everything you care about in your life will die too.  It will be revealed to be an illusion.  Just like this -- imagine you're lost in a movie and the power suddenly goes out.  That's what it feels like.  What's left is you sitting there all alone just realizing that you're the Awareness sitting there staring at a blank two-dimensional screen.  All your cherished Thoughts and all your cherished Experiences just died on the vine.  Actually they were never there to begin with.  That will cause your second great Dark Night of the Soul if you're anything like me.  My first Dark Night of the Soul was when I first discovered that I wasn't the Egoic self early on in my Enlightenment Work.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Impsamri]

6 hours ago, The Blind Sage said:

 

Subtle energies (Chakras) Do not exist are bullshit

1. On one of Leo's blog posts, he mentions that he was wrong about chakras and they do exist

2.

3. I have had an experience of my 'third eye' opening. After a meditation session, I sat down without a single thought in my mind, simply observing, utterly present. Suddenly, the centre of my forehead (where people say the third eye is located) starts to pulsate like a flashlight turning on and off on nearly empty batteries. Things start to become wavy, like I'm tripping on some psychedelic, then my vision abruptly goes dark. I could still feel my body but I could not see it. I felt as if there was something beyond this darkness, almost as if it were a veil, but every time I felt I got close to something my heart would beat and fear would take over-I dont even know what I feared! I wasn't scared of anything in particular, it was almost like a preset response... I shifted between this wavy vision and darkness for about 30 seconds until the experience just faded. Anyways, I'm not claiming I know chakras exist as I don't quite understand what I've experienced, but chakras do seem like the most likely explanation.

I had similar while listening for binaural beat and meditating for more than years. It’s real enough to me, but is alrdy hundreds time I realize that I would not understand it if I just don’t stop my thought to get involved too much. Subtle energy is flowing. Chakras felt to me just like a different wind with much more densed as it goes down (just like emotion is denser than thought)

Alrdy more than few years by now since the first time I had the experience, I still don’t understand how it really works, it’s really mysterious for me.

[Leo Gura]

@Joseph Maynor I thought you didn't like the word God?

 

[Joseph Maynor]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor I thought you didn't like the word God?

 

I didn’t like it before but I find it useful now.  I’ve had some growth between then and now.  I don’t have to use it, it just fits very well.  Stage Coral is where true Spirituality emerges so the religious language fits very well from a utilitarian standpoint.  It’s almost impossible for me to not use religious words now.  A lot of my earlier Stage Turquoise values, beliefs, and terminology has radically changed recently since I’ve been moving into Stage Coral.  I’m not the same person as I was before, for better or for worse.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[The Blind Sage]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Technically the only thing that exists is God Awareness.  Relative existence is an illusion.  You have God Awareness that exists and then the Maya of Experience and Thought which are both totally empty and illusory.  The Metaphysics is very simple.  But you have to get to the place where the Metaphysics becomes simple.  When the Metaphysics is complex, that's you clinging to Thought.  But see, Thought is all occurring within Consciousness.  Thought is basically a sensation that we get mesmerized with kind of like a bird seeing another bird in one of those tiny mirrors placed in bird cages not realizing that it's looking at itself.  Every Thought and Experience is basically just a sensation inside your Consciousness that your Awareness is potentially distracted by.  And the downside of that is you lose sense of who you are.  You still have Awareness, but you forget that everything is inside your own Consciousness without anything behind it -- which is why you don't have God Awareness.  The Mind fills in the gaps and takes the Maya to be what's real 'out there' and the Awareness to be something trivial that exists 'in here'.  It's entirely like getting lost in a movie.  There's nothing behind the movie, yet it feels so real when we lose ourselves in one.  Once your Mindfulness goes to a 10, you'll stop filling in all those gap and reality will look very different to you from that point forward.  You'll realize that the only thing that exists is Consciousness a.k.a. God Awareness which is being constantly distracted by a bunch of lifeless zombie sensations (i.e. Thought and Experience).  When you can look at those sensations and see exactly what's there, Metaphysics becomes very simple.  The problem is that everything you care about in your life will die too.  It will be revealed to be an illusion.  Just like this -- imagine you're lost in a movie and the power suddenly goes out.  That's what it feels like.  What's left is you sitting there all alone just realizing that you're the Awareness sitting there staring at a blank two-dimensional screen.  All your cherished Thoughts and all your cherished Experiences just died on the vine.  Actually they were never there to begin with.  That will cause your second great Dark Night of the Soul if you're anything like me.  My first Dark Night of the Soul is when I first discovered that I wasn't the Egoic self early on in my Enlightenment Work.

Fascinating...
That's deeply profound, thank you my brother.

[AlwaysBeNice]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@MarkusSweden

No, #2 is false even from the relative POV. Quantum mechanics has told you that matter does not exist for over 100 years. You just have a very outdated model of matter and reality.

SCIENCE tells you that there is no such thing as physical reality! All there are, are infinite quantum fields. There are no particles!

What's stupid are your ideas of reality. That's all.

Surrender your ideas, and your stupidity will disappear.

And it's utterly impossible that one field collapses another field, redicoulious