Leo makes mistakes (obviously)

[primzolo]

Have you noticed? 

Leo has a firm standpoint, on how a person should approach life. Of course, everyone of us do. Even me right now - I'm writing this, because I got a bit agitated,  when he had a little outburst in the newest video. 

The moment, that I am talking about here is, when Leo talks about the importance of books  - and a bit forward.  Everyone can reply here now and say, that this is just my projection, because I don't read enough books. Maybe, that is partly true - but I can give you the same argument: "This is your projection, because you DO read a lot of books". Don't take this the wrong way - I'm not saying that reading books is bad, as well as not reading books is not bad. Both have infinite ways of "taking  a glimpse at the absolute".

My point here is, that if you want to really think openly, you should accept both sides -  not get an outburst and tell people to "get the fuck out", when they have a different approach of dealing with the Truth. 

Thank you for all of this Leo. You gave me a lot of insights or reminded me of some things , that I forgot. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm just returning the favor and reminding you (hopefully). 

I hope, I made myself clear - I'm not so good with words... hmmm  

[brugluiz]

Maybe wanting to read many books has something to do with fear of the unknown. But probably Leo is giving the message for those who make excuses and don't want to read books. I think Teal Swan has a video where she explains that teachers give different teachings depending on the place the person finds herself. If you're being lazy, of course you should move your ass and read books.

I mean an intellectual laziness. You can work hard at your job, but maybe you're intellectualy lazy and don't want to read a book.

[primzolo]

@brugluiz

I understand, that teacher teaches depended on the circumstances she/he is in. Even these two comments in this topic are circumstances of some teacher right now. Maybe for Leo. Maybe just for you and me, which will reflect the next time we talk to somebody. 

To put in the context: I just noticed in the video before, that Leos reaction was angry, even if later he switched in to the same old enthusiasm. But, if he promotes only the book readings as "holy". He will trap those who believe him and are too lazy to read a book - those who couldn't see this projection, that he has made. He acted exactly as a parent, trying to give some ideology to his child. His goal at that moment was to be in 0.001% of people and not actually directed in the Truth. 

[Leo Gura]

More excuses for not reading books?

[primzolo]

@Leo Gura

Yes you could say that. But what, if I told you that sometimes you gain more by not reading so much. You can still insist and say: "If you would read more books, you would't say that" or "you are being lazy again". Okay, I understand this perspective (maybe I will even join with it in the future) - do you understand mine and actually think, that I could get the insights, that are just as "powerful" as you reading 100 books a year? 

[Leo Gura]

Reading 100 books is not mutually exclusive with sitting still.

People who do not read end up ignorant, regardless of whatever else they do.

You can be enlightened, but still ignorant and undeveloped.

[primzolo]

Okay, I agree with that

[brugluiz]

1 hour ago, primzolo said:

@brugluiz

I understand, that teacher teaches depended on the circumstances she/he is in. Even these two comments in this topic are circumstances of some teacher right now. Maybe for Leo. Maybe just for you and me, which will reflect the next time we talk to somebody. 

To put in the context: I just noticed in the video before, that Leos reaction was angry, even if later he switched in to the same old enthusiasm. But, if he promotes only the book readings as "holy". He will trap those who believe him and are too lazy to read a book - those who couldn't see this projection, that he has made. He acted exactly as a parent, trying to give some ideology to his child. His goal at that moment was to be in 0.001% of people and not actually directed in the Truth. 

I got it. Maybe he seems to be angry due to his masculine energy. Sometimes we get triggered by such behaviors due to a problem we had with our father or masculine figure.

I like your avatar by the way. It remembers me Spiral Dynamics.

[robdl]

Knowing more things from books may only strengthen the "knower" --- thought's attachment/identification/clinging to knowledge that sustains a self-image/"I".

Of course, you can find books that echo the above Sentence, but is it merely absorbed as more knowledge, or is it actualized?  Thought loves non-dual knowledge.

 

[Kosmos]

1 hour ago, primzolo said:

Leo has a firm standpoint, on how a person should approach life. Of course, everyone of us do.

 

Some part of us kinda needs a firm standpoint. eg "Other people (or at least myself), should approach life in this way". But I get the impression you are talking about the relationship with that standpoint firmness. Rather than talking about the content (eg firmly holding onto the one sided life approach idea that a large number of books should/shouldn't be read by you (or someone else), which might be held up place by a deeper life approach idea like "I shouldn't be ignorant".).

For example, right now, I am mentally searching for things to say, in the hope that I can land on something firm. But I know there is nothing firm. And yet, even that last sentence was just another attempt to create firmness where there is none. And again. And again. Keep following that rabbit hole and sometimes the floor drops out from the universe and swallows you whole.

Sometimes that lasts for a long time, sometimes just for a second where you glimpse the infinite and laugh.

Again, all of the above is just yet another attempt to create firmness. I don't think you can escape it, just have different levels of awareness of it.

1 hour ago, primzolo said:

My point here is, that if you want to really think openly, you should accept both sides -  not get an outburst and tell people to "get the fuck out", when they have a different approach of dealing with the Truth.

Could it be that there are not just "two" sides, but many sides, and despite out best efforts to accept them all, it isn't actually literally possible to do so? That the whole project of creating a coherent view of the world is one that isn't actually possible, and at some point it is can be appropriate to grow beyond the illusion of actual coherence?

For example:

2 hours ago, primzolo said:

He will trap those who believe him and are too lazy to read a book - those who couldn't see this projection, that he has made. He acted exactly as a parent, trying to give some ideology to his child. His goal at that moment was to be in 0.001% of people and not actually directed in the Truth. 

Assuming some of this "trapping" occurred. Did you not take a firm standpoint that such trapping should be avoided? How would you know whether such "trapping" is a good or bad thing in the long run, for those individuals, or society in general?

Say Leo did act in a way which caused various outcomes that you consider to be negative. Even theoretically, how can any human have confidence in the firmness of deciding whether the long term effects of those outcomes are ultimately positive or negative? It is chaos, how can there be a firm answer for any human?
I think the only way to have real confidence in the results of any specific life approach, is by not being aware that the firmness is an illusion.

I think sometimes, it's even useful to not have that awareness, because the lack of awareness allows you to build a firm identity and life approach, which you can possibly some day begin to hold very loosely. Becoming aware of that illusion too soon can actually be damaging, just like with all necessary illusions, which is why we have defensive mechanisms which tend to keep them in place.

If you first learn how to create a life approach and hold it firmly, then one day see there is no firmness, then perhaps you can learn to consciously take stances of "right now I will act as if there is firmness in this life approach, and later i will act as if there is firmness in a different life approach".

[Kosmos]

16 minutes ago, robdl said:

Knowing more things from books may only strengthen the "knower" --- thought's attachment/identification/clinging to knowledge that sustains a self-image/"I".

Of course, you can find books that echo the above Sentence, but is it merely absorbed as more knowledge, or is it actualized?  Thought loves non-dual knowledge.

 

Understanding is the ultimate illusion.

[lmfao]

@primzolo In regards to increasing your mindfulness and becoming enlightened, I think books are mostly unimportant. As long as you know backbone/fundamental theory in regards to our awareness and the nature of thought and action, you should be fine. If you believe that truths are experiential and not so much so in the realm of verbal abstraction then the limit of books is clear, especially if you have had enlightenment experiences. And so it is that I think that the issue of reading books is separate from experiencing "the absolute" in this sense. Books are mostly important for navigating the matrix, but enlightenment is about "escaping" the matrix. When you escape the matrix (even if it be temporarily)  you realize that everything is equal and language, at the core of it, is meaningless and whats paradoxical enough is that what I'm saying is "false" because I'm trying to use language and if I'm being technical there is no "I" to begin with. See how much of a mess has been created from trying to explain enlightenment? 

[Forestluv]

There are many tools. Some people have more experience with certain tools and see that value of certain tools. Are reading books a valuable tool to gain insight? Sure. Reading about various perspectives expands one's mind. Yet one can also expose themself to new perspectives through travel and cultural immersion. Imagine someone spends a year reading dozens of well-written books about South American tribes, mysticism and ceremonies. Imagine another person spends a year living in South America. He immerses hiimself within tribes - with natives, shamans and mystics. He participates in ceremonies. 

Does each person have a sense of knowing about South American tribes and ceremonies? Of course. They BOTH do. Now imagine you go to a public presentation of each person. Both presentations are AMAZING!!! The avid book reader talks a lot about what he learned from all the books. Fascinating amazing perspectives! He explains to the audience about the value of reading books and encourages the audience to read more. Does he discourage travel? Of course not. . . The traveler gives a presentation about living within South American tribes. Fascinating amazing perspectives! He tells the audience about the value of cultural immersion and encourages the audience to travel more. Does he discourage reading? Of course not.

The two presentations TOGETHER provide a much more holistic view. Each presentations has aspects of truth and together reveal a more holistic view of truth. . .  What happens after the presentations? Do the presenters argue with each other whether reading or travel is the *real* truth? No. Does the audience form a "reading team" and "travel team" and start fighting with each other over who is right and who is wrong? No. . . The speakers sit down and have a Q and A. The knowledge of the two speakers synergize and new ideas and feelings emerge. You couldn't imagine how it could get any better and now new ideas beyond each individual speaker are emerging. This is so fucking mind-blowing amazing!!!!

Read books, travel to foreign countries, listen to a variety of teachers, meditate, do yoga, go on retreats, have discussions from others and learn from each other, try shamanic breathing, psychedelics. . . EXPLORE. Let go of attachments and identification that contract you. Explore like a child. Expand beyond your wildest dreams. 

[Eo Ea]

@Leo Gura Are fiction books worth reading? I love reading fiction a lot. I am thinking of reading your book list (which is probably inevitable). I also like writing my own stories on the app "book creator" for fun but I never plan on publishing a book since I don't like the feeling of other people reading my work. There was a day when I was trying to summon up the willpower the do a school assignment. I looked up "how to stop procrastinating" on youtube, which is how I found your channel. I got lucky af that I was feeling lazy that day.

[YaMayka]

I have been a book junkie for a while now (since I read my first book in childhood) so I can only say I definitely see point of reading. But... sometimes I wonder if it is not going to influence my perception and expectations, like a placebo effect - I will project my pre-read knowledge on my experience. How will I know I am not simply interpreting stuff according to what I learnt instead of to what I experienced?

For the rest... books are good pointers for where to look. Just make sure to think for yourself after, not to absorb author's point of view as your own.

I love fiction - some can be great to open your mind, to study society, way of thinking, imagination, language...

[SchallUndRauch]

One of these days I'm gonna get enlightened, just because of the suffering I experience when Leo says Gödel and Schrödinger.

[Eo Ea]

I love the way that you say fiction can open your imagination. It's sad how reading is seen as "boring" by many. Reading can get you closer to enlightenment. At my school, I'd say about 95% of the population are slaves to technology rather than using technology as a pedestal for a great life. Public school is a scam anyways so I recommend a textbook homeschool. Things like porn addictions and gaming addictions are super common and unfulfilling. 

[Jack River]

18 hours ago, robdl said:

Knowing more things from books may only strengthen the "knower" --- thought's attachment/identification/clinging to knowledge that sustains a self-image/"I".

Of course, you can find books that echo the above Sentence, but is it merely absorbed as more knowledge, or is it actualized?  Thought loves non-dual knowledge.

 

Yep..knowledge feeds itself. Dope! 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Jack River

[Mohamad Tahmas]

On 05/09/2018 at 1:35 PM, Leo Gura said:

Reading 100 books is not mutually exclusive with sitting still.

People who do not read end up ignorant, regardless of whatever else they do.

You can be enlightened, but still ignorant and undeveloped.

@Leo Gura Can you make an episode about ignorant enlightened people?  

[Revolutionary Think]

Do audio books count?