Mooji Unmasked...

[Toby]

1 hour ago, Prabhaker said:

Do you think, a disciple who is identified with her body, can drop her ego ?

Dropping ego has nothing to do with dropping healthy boundaries and common sense. Just look what the effect is with the "disciples". I know of one teacher that is a disciple of Papaji that exploits his female students and when you meet these women in other settings you see the effect. It's really not unlike women that were abused as children or raped later in life.

[Arkandeus]

it's this weird ego thing where people put a certain figure into positions of divinity then strip them and deny them of their sexuality, in order to dehumanize them and make them match the godly portrait

 

"oh you be damned for not holding upto the divine standards onto which I hold you to!I'm a victim of your folly!"

its just plain dehumanizing

it clearly shows that ego always causes suffering, whether its when you put someone below yourself, or when you put someone to be better then yourself, it is always ugly

 

all this stems from the very deep belief in spiritual community that you cannot be enlightened AND have fun

sex representing the fun aspect, is sex not one of the highest in life?

"you cannot have pleasure And enlightenment in the same life"

"you cannot be the wise man or wise woman and have your wild sexual escapades and motorbikes and make-up, spa's and parties"

well I raise you infinity

I'll be damned if I'll end up as some castrated monk sitting all day in "bliss", no offense to the monks

I'll have the heavenly wisdom, and I'll have the earthly pleasures, two for one, that will be my bliss, and I hope the same for everyone

enlightenment is fun, it is not hard work, it is not serious work, it can be both if desired tho, its all for us to chose, I'll go for fun though, that is my view on it

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Toby]

 

[MarkusSweden]

There is a clip somewhere on the internet where a woman who admire mooji so deeply but she realised that she didn't need him any longer because she find what she was looking for, she find her true self, and with that finding she lose all attachments, even the attachment to mooji, and she explain that in a satsang full of tears down her chins, because she find it sad in a way despite being coming 'home' to her true self. 

Mooji couldn't handle that honesty and start mocking her in a subtle way, telling her things like.. "Don't cry, you save your plane ticket money" and things like that. He didn't say it in a warm kind of way, definitely Mooji's ego who was speaking in defence there. Could anyone help me to find that clip, it would be appropriate for this thread. 

But hey, who says he need to be perfect? He's more pleasant to meet that 99% of the people in the world anyway. We always demand nearly perfect people to be completely perfect, don't we? 

[Martin123]

2 hours ago, Arkandeus said:

here we go again, a guru is twisted because he engages in sex, because he likes sex

 

what is the deal with people with sex?

sex is not evil, it is very natural, and yes it reminds you that the guru's that you admire are just normal beings like you and me , they are not other species

as long as he didn't rape anyone I don't see a problem

what's the problem with someone asking for sex? because he is a guru he should not be allowed to ask for that which he desires?

as long as he asks it respectfully, what's the deal really? he should be allowed to pursue his natural desires

 

if you feel pressured to say yes because you stay over for free, and because you picture this man to be a sort of god who's super divine and far above you, that is sort of your own fault

the guy welcomes you in his home, gives you food, teaches you his most valuable life insights, and he shouldn't be allowed to follow his desires and simply ask if you want to have sex? and I specify ask, not demand

if he were to demand it, that'd be reprehensible, but asking , it is normal to ask for what you want

and if mooji was female guru I'd say the same

now again if we're talking about rape and coercion I'm definitely against that!

but simply asking for sex, pursuing one's natural desire, should be allowed for everyone! no guru should be sexually castrated because he or she are looked upto!

 

Hey Arkandeus! I have to say I totally agree with the sexual desire thing. I truly think any kind of spiritual gurus shouldnt be de-sexualized, even perhaps sleeping with students when its about genuine authenticity and intimacy, I can truly imagine it can be very beautiful. Everyone is different, on a different path and journey and everyone has different boat to float.

I dont think Moojis problem is the sexual acts themselves, but it is the abuse of power. It is the predatorial narcissistic way he approaches people. Spirituality cant be used in way that perpetuates abusive dynamics. Unless a spiritual teacher is here to diminish neglect and eradicate abuse from the communities we create, he is just a glorified student who thinks he found his way, but is just as lost as all the rest. 

[SoonHei]

@Martin123 osho used to mash hard no?

[Martin123]

@SoonHei Idk he be hittin dem hoes eh..
Yea I just gotta say I dont like that type of thing. ANd not in a way to say that sexualitx is non-spiritual or whatever, or that spiritual teachers must not sex other people. Its totally fine, but theres a difference between liking to sex other people hard and have orgies and wahtever, which youre free to do, and using your spiritual status to get what you want. 

Its a whole crazy thing where self-awareness is buried in all the pleasure and "power-highs" you get.

[Consept]

36 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Hey Arkandeus! I have to say I totally agree with the sexual desire thing. I truly think any kind of spiritual gurus shouldnt be de-sexualized, even perhaps sleeping with students when its about genuine authenticity and intimacy, I can truly imagine it can be very beautiful. Everyone is different, on a different path and journey and everyone has different boat to float.

I dont think Moojis problem is the sexual acts themselves, but it is the abuse of power. It is the predatorial narcissistic way he approaches people. Spirituality cant be used in way that perpetuates abusive dynamics. Unless a spiritual teacher is here to diminish neglect and eradicate abuse from the communities we create, he is just a glorified student who thinks he found his way, but is just as lost as all the rest. 

Hold on, theres a lot of conclusions being jumped to here. As far as i can see theres very little evidence of Mooji doing anything like abusing people or even having asked for consensual sex from followers, the only thing we have in this thread from op is an opinion on a video, which i see in a completely different way and some stories from unknown sources about 'hearing' something. Even looking online at an 'is Mooji a cult' thread on a different forum, i cant see much direct evidence. Of course 'if' he did coerce or use his power to have sex then yes of course its wrong, he holds a lot of influence and people have a real love for him, so for him to take advantage of that would be wrong.

But where is the evidence? So this leads me to question why is there so much fear and so much willingness to brand him in this way? Im not saying this to defend him but im just wondering whats in us as humans that we look to bring people down in such a way. Is it that we just cant believe someone like him can exist ie someone in turquoise consciousness? He may have done this stuff but on the flip side he might not have and just due to the lack of evidence id lean towards he didnt at the moment anyway. So its entirely feasible that he didnt so for sake of argument lets say he definitely didnt, it then becomes an issue with us that we're so quick to state these things or jump to these conclusions. 

I think theres a fear of cults or losing our mind and being taken advantage of, this seems to come from ego, im sure the more you raise your consciousness the more easy it is to spot fakes, if you learn about sales for example youre less likely to be conned by a salesperson because youre conscious of their tricks. But also i think we need to stop looking at gurus as the be all and all, most of them will tell you that the real guru is inside you, we are still looking for it in someone else. I think really its just a fear of letting go completely to ourselves, we're scared to let go fully in relationships and we're scared to let go when listening to someone like Mooji, i think this fear comes from the fact we still believe that we are our ego and we think we might take advantage if we had such power. It seems to be a projection on our part, we think we're taking down these beings but really we are taking ourselves down as they are us and we are them, they are just trying to show a different side to us that we havent explored enough

[Martin123]

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

Hold on, theres a lot of conclusions being jumped to here. As far as i can see theres very little evidence of Mooji doing anything like abusing people or even having asked for consensual sex from followers, the only thing we have in this thread from op is an opinion on a video, which i see in a completely different way and some stories from unknown sources about 'hearing' something. Even looking online at an 'is Mooji a cult' thread on a different forum, i cant see much direct evidence. Of course 'if' he did coerce or use his power to have sex then yes of course its wrong, he holds a lot of influence and people have a real love for him, so for him to take advantage of that would be wrong.

But where is the evidence? So this leads me to question why is there so much fear and so much willingness to brand him in this way? Im not saying this to defend him but im just wondering whats in us as humans that we look to bring people down in such a way. Is it that we just cant believe someone like him can exist ie someone in turquoise consciousness? He may have done this stuff but on the flip side he might not have and just due to the lack of evidence id lean towards he didnt at the moment anyway. So its entirely feasible that he didnt so for sake of argument lets say he definitely didnt, it then becomes an issue with us that we're so quick to state these things or jump to these conclusions. 

I think theres a fear of cults or losing our mind and being taken advantage of, this seems to come from ego, im sure the more you raise your consciousness the more easy it is to spot fakes, if you learn about sales for example youre less likely to be conned by a salesperson because youre conscious of their tricks. But also i think we need to stop looking at gurus as the be all and all, most of them will tell you that the real guru is inside you, we are still looking for it in someone else. I think really its just a fear of letting go completely to ourselves, we're scared to let go fully in relationships and we're scared to let go when listening to someone like Mooji, i think this fear comes from the fact we still believe that we are our ego and we think we might take advantage if we had such power. It seems to be a projection on our part, we think we're taking down these beings but really we are taking ourselves down as they are us and we are them, they are just trying to show a different side to us that we havent explored enough

Hey thanks for the comment, I totally understand  where youre coming from and youre right there isnt much evidence in this thread. 
I dont mean to jump to conclusions or accuse him of anything, I just wanna express a thing that Ive always felt on some level ever since I got soaked in the spiritual sauce.
Nowadays it is quite common for a spiritual teacher to gain some sort of a awakening realization, and then use it as an excuse to keep his predatorial tendencies in tact. If you watch some teachers, especially the ones who have the guru status, you can smell it, you can feel it in the way they talk and they relate to disciples. Its a predator meeting a victim type of energy.

I went on reddit a read some testimonials of people coming back from the Ashram, and of course it is the internet and it can be misused, misunderstood, they could be lying to undermine him for some reason which are totally valid reasons why be skeptical about it. However I couldnt help but feel the sheer terror, confusion and trauma of the people confessing their experiences in the ashram, and I was so sorry that this has been happening in the name of spiritual evolution. The energy of those confessions was similar to the energy of people who escaped abusive relatinoships, and lived to tell their tale. 
I dont mean to conclude anything, I dont mean to even create any sort of opinion, I am simply saying that any kind of abuse, especially in the name of spiritual evolution is not ok in any sort of book ever written, and it has to be dealt with, it has to be spoken about and it has to be brought to the awareness, not only the people who are victimized, but as well as all the perpetraitors unconsciously abusing others wake up and face the pain that is driving them to behave in confusing and damaging ways. 

I dont mean to bash mooji or spiritual teachers, I want an abuse free planet. 

[Arkandeus]

well I agree @Martin123

if there's abuse, it is condemnable

from my personal view of mooji in the videos I have seen of him he is very genuine and caring for the people

and as @MarkusSweden pointed out, he might've showed an ego blow when that women said he didn't need him anymore

and that is fine

 

we should stop trying to expect a perfect record from guru's, I learned from mooji, to jezus, to bentinho, to leo, to sadghuru, to more and more

but I know that none of these have it right completely, or better said they are perfect with their flaws, because we are all truly on the same level, on the same journey

even buddha didn't have it right, if he did the entire planet would have been enlightened, but he did perfectly fine, his legacy is helping us today

enlightenment is a collective movement, there is truly no barrier, we are one, which is why mooji or anyone cannot be fully elightened as long as there is still at least a single human being on this planet that is not enlightened, ego down means ego down

there is no literally no barrier between bodies, we are connected energies like electricity

enlightenment is a collective, in that light we can see that mooji and leo and many more are doing great work

they are not supposed to be perfect, they cannot be fully enlightened as long as you are not too, they're helping people awaken, and that is exactly harmonious

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Martin123]

@Arkandeus that’s well said. But just one thing. -ego-blow is just another name for abusive behaviour.

 

Like for real it’s not OK to abuse egos  we all have one, better treat it well, it’s with us till the end.

[Arkandeus]

13 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Yes we are "perfect" with our flaws. 

But growing out of our "flaws" is also part of the "perfection" right?

You wouldn't be comfortable living in the middle of a war zone, would you?

You like your nice cosy home with your cosy creature comforts and your cosy privelage to sign onto the internet when you want and talk with people all over the world about what you want. 

Right?

If you're really ok with "flaws", I suggest you go live on the streets for a few months. Become one with the "flaws" there. All kinds of rape and abuse and permanent damage going on in the streets.

For you it's should be a piece of cake. 

Or maybe you can stop bs'ing yourself for a moment?

But that would require you actually have to feel something unpleasant once in a while, and that wouldn't be conducive for your cosy little bliss state you're attached to. Would it?

 

dear friend,

we must keep our eyes to the stars and dreams, it serves no one to investigate what's unpleasant, our instinct is joyful expansion!

yes life is easy,it needs no justification for that, the nature of life is bliss, that's a good thing

 

really, I keep my visor on what I desire, peace, harmony, joy

to that I dedicate all of myself, every single cell and every liter of imagination

which is why I cannot partake in your exercise

growth can only come in my opinion with acceptance of what is, then growth is revealed to be our true nature, infinity, we do not grow because we lack something, we grow out of abundance

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Forestluv]

Peeps, be aware of the human tendency to make assumptions and expectations. As well, be aware of "all or nothing" thinking. I.e. "Good or Bad". "Moral or immoral". It's more nuanced than that.

[Arkandeus]

9 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

You can accept something and at the same time prevent it from happening.

That's what yellow is. 

What you're doing is being an apologist for abuse while masquerading as highly conscious. 

You're not conscious at all. You're in denial

 

well your opinion on my consciousness is welcomed, but I do not condone abuse

[Arkandeus]

Just now, Feel Good said:

You're condoning it, but another part of you is publically condemning it.

You just can't see it.

I can ! And that's why my opinion of your consciousness has been voiced.

Now, you can pretend all you like, but that doesn't change the fact you have been called out here and you hopefully won't be poisoning impressionable people with your views.

 

you could help me see in what way I am condoning it so that I can be conscious of that

although I honestly don't see how I condoned abuse

[Arkandeus]

26 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

  1 hour ago, Arkandeus said:

he might've showed an ego blow when that women said he didn't need him anymore

and that is fine

yeah @MarkusSweden said that here mooji kinda showed that he was hurt by the ego

as long as he didn't insult the other person, as far as I heard, it's a disconcerted ego , it can happen to anyone

imagine you planned to go to a concert with a friend and at some point that friend tells you he or she will go to the concert but with someone else, not with you, you might feel a bit hurt and not display a completely composed attitude

it's not preferable no, but it happens so it's fine, it's human, we can't be completely perfect and hide negative emotions all the time, can he be allowed to have a lapse where he answers sarcastically and with a tone when someone tells him that he is not needed anymore?

its as small as it gets, I don't condone this as normal behavior, but I accept this an error that happens, it doesn't discredit someone

same with parents who sometimes lose it on their kids and scream on them

I do not support parents screaming on their kids in any way, but I can understand that sometimes parents have a lapse where this happens, that doesn't mean those parents don't try their best to love their kids

there's a difference with acceptance and supporting something

we cannot look at the world in black and white, it really does not help understand

and never will I try to help someone by making them feel bad about themselves, growth comes from good

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Arkandeus]

Quote

Enlightened people should have their act together in public otherwise they are just communicating that they are the blind leading the blind.

quite exactly, this is where you perfectly described what I believe in, the blind leading the blind, or better said light leading light

there is no teacher or student, I do not believe in guru's, teachers and students in the conventional terms

 

I do not believe in non-enlightement, for me everyone is already enlightened

this explains my perspective on what we're discussing

I do not find it right to proclaim anyone to be better then anyone, the same with proclaiming anyone to be worse

both acts are the same to me

 

which is why I accept mooji as he is

 I can understand that in the framework of your beliefs what mooji did is unacceptable

I understand your perspective!

Quote

Your also conflating unenlightened asleep average folk with very influential people in the spiritualist community. Average people cannot help but be imperfect, but enlightenment is not about identifying with humanities dark nature and it's manifestations- it's about transcending that and part of that process is healing from personality. 

I want to stress that the shadow is getting a free pass here with spiritual people on forum and that is making for a very relaxed and almost Zen devil model of enligjtenment

hmm it comes down to where you believe enlightenment to be

if you believe it to be further away from here, it will make sense to strive, to attain to transcend, in order to love that which will be, can be

for me enlightenment is located in the present moment here, so I accept and I love what is here now, without trying to change it, and seeing the good in whats already here, that's my personal experience

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus

[BuddhaTree]

1. Have you ever been to Mooji's ashram? No.

 

2. Have you ever personally met Mooji? No.

 

3. Do you clearly have any degree of a spiritually mature discernment? No.

 

4. Have you read a random post someone made on the internet without any evidence? Yes.

 

5. Have you decided to register on this forum just to posting that fake rant defaming Mooji? Yes.

 

6. Are you interested in Self-actualization or Self-realization instead of sharing gossip drama from a clearly fake source? No.

 

Bye.

[Hamilcar]

what I don't understand , is why do you all need gurus...

 

[Forestluv]

26 minutes ago, Hamilcar said:

what I don't understand , is why do you all need gurus...

 

Teachers have seen many traps and can help a student through traps.