Mooji Unmasked...

[LaraGreenbridge]

I joined this forum specifically to share an experience that I recently had. Unfortunately my disturbing experience involves the popular internet guru Mooji. 

Weeks ago, I began watching Mooji videos on YouTube. I was feeling a bit down and lonely at the time, for reasons I don't need to go into.

I consider myself a spiritual person; I've even studied Zen Buddhism briefly with a Buddhist nun, many years ago. I find Buddhist teachings very inspiring. To this day, I enjoy reading all kinds of spiritual texts, but especially Eastern philosophy. I also like to meditate, although I'm still a novice at it. I give you all this background information, as I don't want you to think that I'm generally skeptical of spirituality and spiritual teachers. I'm open-minded.

Well, to get to the point, I found Mooji's videos very, very relaxing. Perhaps too relaxing? Some of what he had to say seemed very profound. In fact, looking back, I don't understand why it seemed so profound, as there is very little difference in what Mooji teaches and what plenty of other spiritual teachers are saying. I won't get into a philosophical dissertation on non-dualism here, however.

What disturbed me is that in one video, a young woman came up to the microphone during their "Satsungs" and began to say very jumbled, incoherent things. It was painful to watch, because this woman was obviously mentally ill. She laughed manically and then she flounced away, back into the crowd. I wondered why everyone there treated her behaviour as though it was 'normal'? Mooji just smiled and seemed very pleased. It was so damn odd. 

Being someone with some life experience (if I do say so myself), I began to wonder why someone who was so obviously in need of psychiatric treatment would be allowed to remain at the ashram? I mean, wouldn't she be a liability? So..... what could possibly be the pay-off for a spiritual community to keep her there in the condition she was in? She was young and pretty, so I became a bit suspicious.

I went online and googled information pertaining to the Mooji group being a cult. And.... Bingo! It did not take me long to find many different complaints from people who had returned from that ashram with psychological problems. Not only that, but there are plenty of allegations out there of 'psychological abuse', Mooji being a 'pathological narcissist', the group using coercion, 'brain-washing' and exploiting people for money, donations, whatever.

The worst of it it was Mooji being accused of approaching different young women for sex, some of who are in very vulnerable positions, due to their unfortunate life circumstances, ie, they were reliant on the Mooji group for accommodation and meals and basically had nowhere else to go.

So, what I am saying folks, is to be very careful when choosing a guru! Do some research.

Ok, I know many of you will be thinking that these allegations are false, but there are so many allegations across different websites coming from different sources, using different language, different wording, some from people who obviously speak English as a second language ..... For every one of these stories to have no substance seems highly unlikely to me. 

Please be careful.

Edited September 4, 2018 by LaraGreenbridge
iPad decided to change a word into something else

[Martin123]

@LaraGreenbridge I just gotta say there are some interesting things on reddit about Mooji, I had no idea the spiritual community could go off on such a deep tangent, thats a reality check for me.

[Leo Gura]

@LaraGreenbridge

Be careful with spreading gossip and rumors unless you have direct evidence.

Of course, it's very possible for it to be cult. But the fact is you don't know unless you've personally experienced it.

People call Actualized.org a cult all the time. When you're dealing with large groups of people, there will also be some disgruntled and crazy ones who just make shit up and try to demonize because they get triggered by spiritual teachings. I'm sure many people out there misunderstand Mooji. Then again, I would not be surprised if it turned out to be a cult. Both are possible.

I will shoot a video about cult psychology coming soon.

And, BTW, enlightenment and cults are not mutually exclusive. You can have two in one! It's a very popular formula.

[brugluiz]

I think maybe you can't grasp what a mental disorder means. If the girl was "mentally ill", she was probably passing through a mystical experience (what some people call psychosis). That's probably why Mooji didn't make a fuss about it.

Don't trust too much on the psychiatric system. Psychiatrists have a very Orange paradigm and they can't understand entirely what a mental disorder is.

Take a look at Sean Blackwell's videos in order to understand psychosis better. He even talks about Spiral Dynamics.

You may also take a look at other books about mental health like Rethinking Madness by Paris Williams.

[brugluiz]

1 minute ago, Feel Good said:

This stuff is commonplace for spiritual communities

Non duality isn't a fix for psychological issues. 

I remember Ken Wilber making a point that if one realizes non dual awareness with a shadow problem, they don't resolve the shadow issues, they just extend the shadow to infinity.

Interesting concept eh

Maybe Ken Wilber is right. A person during psychosis may not get out of fear and her non-dual realization may come with dellusions and paranoia. These people need a very compassionate and present person to help them pass through this process (which can be very transformative). But, again, the psychiatric system can be very, but very traumatizing. Most psychiatrists won't consider the spiritual and emotional side of a psychotic episode.

[here-now]

1 hour ago, LaraGreenbridge said:

What disturbed me is that in one video, a young woman came up to the microphone during their "Satsungs" and began to say very jumbled, incoherent things. It was painful to watch, because this woman was obviously mentally ill. She laughed manically and then she flounced away, back into the crowd. I wondered why everyone there treated her behaviour as though it was 'normal'? Mooji just smiled and seemed very pleased. It was so damn odd. 

Could you post a link to this video?

(Curious to see for myself rather than just take your word for it.)

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, LaraGreenbridge said:

The worst of it it was Mooji being accused of approaching different young women for sex

So, he is a heterosexual, what's wrong when someone is a heterosexual ?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

So, he is a heterosexual, what's wrong when someone is a heterosexual ?

Gurus sleeping with their students does become corrupt and problematic. Especially if they do so frivolously.

It's a classic guru trap.

[brugluiz]

8 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

I think maybe spiritual communities need to start to address this issues and account for these facts - maybe employ trained therapists to help during times of personal crisis. A satsang of hundreds of people is very impersonal (I know enlightenment is impersonal) but there is still problem of integrating spiritual experience properly. Sometimes it can harm more than help!! 

According to one of my therapists, there are already spiritual communities that address these issues. Once I read about one in USA that treats people in psychosis (even people diagnosed with schizophrenia). But we probably won't see many of these communities here in the Western civilization.

Soteria houses may not be considered a spiritual community, but they generally accept the spiritual and emotional side of psychosis. Open Dialogue works this way as well.

[Prabhaker]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Gurus sleeping with their students does become corrupt and problematic.

Krishna is considered as greatest incarnation of God in India. His book 'Geeta' is most popular religious scripture in India. He had relation with many women.

In tantra schools , sex is considered as door to super consciousness. 

[Prabhaker]

3 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

But if you don't see how damaging this could be for student then there might be something "wrong" with you!

Forced sex could be damaging, consensual sex is usually not damaging.

[MarkusSweden]

13 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

 

In tantra schools , sex is considered as door to super consciousness. 

Sex is a thing of nature, once you have super consciousness you have no desire for sex. Eroticism and sexuality becomes something not physical, something that colouring you whole awareness, and physical sex becomes gross, almost as committing a crime. Like if you destroy the sensitive eroticism that already is integrated in your awareness by having physical sex. This is very important to understand. 

[Prabhaker]

5 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Sex is a thing of nature, once you have super consciousness you have no desire for sex.

Tantra is the natural way to God, it is not about lust. The tantric sex act is basically, diametrically opposite and different. The ordinary sexual orgasm looks like madness, the tantric orgasm is a deep, relaxing meditation. Tantra techniques cannot be used with the woman you love, because love will be a disturbance. You will be too attached.

[MarkusSweden]

49 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Tantra is the natural way to God, it is not about lust. The tantric sex act is basically, diametrically opposite and different. The ordinary sexual orgasm looks like madness, the tantric orgasm is a deep, relaxing meditation. Tantra techniques cannot be used with the woman you love, because love will be a disturbance. You will be too attached.

Yes, tantra is basically a good old jerk off!  

Edited September 4, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[LaraGreenbridge]

Thank you so much to all those who replied to this post. As I said, I am talking about allegations, in regards to the spiritual guru Mooji.

There is no way to prove or disprove these allegations, for now. They remain allegations which are out there in the public domain for anyone who cares to research this topic. As for myself, I have spent a lot of time looking into this; mainly because I felt personally duped by Mooji, having watched hours of his material online.

I would like to re-post one comment that I found on www.culteducation.com, written by someone on the 10th of August... (Am I allowed to do this? Please delete this if it's not allowed.) It is from a discussion entitled "Mooji a Cult?", which is an extremely long discussion, but worth reading if you are interested. 

"This account may be deleted but I am posting anonymously to help others and for fear of being found. Mooji is a straight up conman in the worst sense praying on the desperate and vulnerable. He is a "...."** and everybody has to be warned. This happened over a year ago over the span of 2-3 months or so. I don't want to post much more than that as his may be reading.

I was having a rough time with money and having a home and I ended up at a Mooji talk in London. At this point in your life, anything free is a blessing. I wasn't the only one in this situation, there were a few of us that were given food, shelter and in exchange for an 'open mind'. I was thankful for this - much better than the streets and you don't mind filling the time with hearing someone speak. We went along to hear him talk to the masses and it was quite inspirational and this went on for a while with us 'following him'... well there is nothing like a free lunch.

I started seeing some females who I met in similar situations as me who would have 'private talks' with Mooji and come out of rooms looking detached and something bubbling below. I had a friend, let's call her 'Sarah'. Whenever I asked Sarah what happened, she would put on a fake smile and spout that life is beautiful we have to believe. This wasn't the real them and it bugged me that something wasn't right. Mooji never really invited me privately in but his crew spoke to me a lot about 'giving myself' to them whatever that meant, submitting for the higher good and belief. It was wishy washy to pinpoint what I was supposed to believe but the sheer force of belief coming from the crew made me didn't want to question this for fear of being thrown out on the streets. I felt like

like I had to contribute something but I didn't know. Work? Giving out leaflets? Not sure.

So far, there was a positive focus and sense of wellbeing but for what price?

This happened one day a while into my stint with them. I had to sleep when I could being with so many others so I found a quiet corner behind some bags in a venue. I curled up and was trying to drift off amongst the people coming in and out setting up. I couldn't fall asleep so I was lying there trying to relax. I finally sat up and I could see mooji and one of his crew members who I always saw float around mooji and not say much (I didn't even recall hearing his voice) talking to each other. They had their backs to me and i felt a bit strange as nobody else was around and they couldn't see me. I heard them talking about 'Sarah'. Mooji was asking top crew guy if 'sarah' was ready to give herself. ' The crew guy was saying how 'i've been working on her, she'll be *sleeping* with you within the week'.
I was shocked at the frankness of this abuse and it made sense from sarah's detached personality. She was being forcd to prostitute herself to mooji!
Mooji was asking about some others and what they are 'contributing' and the crew guy was talking about them giving money (some followers had money and were not sleeping on the street).

I sat back down behind the bags and lied down quietly as I could sweating if they found me, they would not only kick me out but silence me.

I had to leave and I knew I wouldn't have long with Sarah. I was ready to go and I had to plan my exit so I chose my moment to speak to her about what I heard. She called me a liar and how I didn't believe enough. She was on the verge of tears and her words didn't match how she felt with this conflicting information I was telling her. She was too far gone. I left straight away and I never found out what happened to her. If you're reading sarah or if you ARE a 'sarah' then I urge you to trust your instincts and not fall into the mooji trap. He's preying on the weak with having to believe in something. Don't give him money, don't give him your body. He is using a positive persona and behind this is a twisted evil man. I'm now doing ok, I have a job, a home. There is a way out of this cult."

Personally, this account of events does sound convincing, but I urge people to make up their own minds, of course. 

** I've withheld this word for reasons which I won't go into.  The word is visible for all to see in the original post on the website I reproduced it from.

Edited September 4, 2018 by LaraGreenbridge
wrote relied instead of replied. oops

[Consept]

Because this kind of stuff is way off the mainstream thought patterns it can look weird and crazy, i saw a Mooji video where a woman was acting in a similar way to what you mentioned, not sure if its the same, but she cried when asking the question, Mooji talked to her to make her realise what she really is, mainly he said 'who is the one asking this question?', after a while she then started laughing as you say. 

To me it seemed like someone being in fear and then realising the reality and the unimportance of what shes worrying about, so it seemed from my perspective that she had glimpsed what her true nature is and having experienced something like this in the past i could understand why she laughed like that. 

I understand why you are concerned about such behaviour, but you have to understand if youre doing this half way right, youre (the woman in the video is) opening yourself up completely in these situations. Because of this it cant look normal, as in how we act when playing our daily roles, this woman was trying to be as real and honest as possible and as she was in pain and probably a bit nervous talking to in front of many people talking to Mooji, so its likely to come out incoherent. Its almost more crazy to be perfectly coherent in this situation, id probably be more freaked out about that.

As for the sexual rumors and cult stuff, its quite a big claim so for me to take it seriously there would have to be some direct experience otherwise its just heresay, and again with the nature of spirituality it can very easily be misunderstood. In fact im sure those threatened by it would want it to be misunderstood. Having said that, the rumours could be true, but for me to take notice there would need to be more than what youve presented 

[Aimblack]

@LaraGreenbridge Can you link the video?

[Toby]

3 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Forced sex could be damaging, consensual sex is usually not damaging.

It is not "consensual" because the client / student cannot really consent. There might be all kind of ridiculous projections / regressions on the side of the disciple which makes a "consent" more an exploitation (by the guru) of a vulnerable space. So I'd rather call it abuse. Abuse is most likely damaging.

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

It is not "consensual" because the client / student cannot really consent. There might be all kind of ridiculous projections / regressions on the side of the disciple which makes a "consent" more an exploitation (by the guru) of a vulnerable space. So I'd rather call it abuse. Abuse is most likely damaging.

Do you think, a disciple who is identified with her body, can drop her ego ?

[Arkandeus]

here we go again, a guru is twisted because he engages in sex, because he likes sex

 

what is the deal with people with sex?

sex is not evil, it is very natural, and yes it reminds you that the guru's that you admire are just normal beings like you and me , they are not other species

as long as he didn't rape anyone I don't see a problem

what's the problem with someone asking for sex? because he is a guru he should not be allowed to ask for that which he desires?

as long as he asks it respectfully, what's the deal really? he should be allowed to pursue his natural desires

 

if you feel pressured to say yes because you stay over for free, and because you picture this man to be a sort of god who's super divine and far above you, that is sort of your own fault

the guy welcomes you in his home, gives you food, teaches you his most valuable life insights, and he shouldn't be allowed to follow his desires and simply ask if you want to have sex? and I specify ask, not demand

if he were to demand it, that'd be reprehensible, but asking , it is normal to ask for what you want

and if mooji was female guru I'd say the same

now again if we're talking about rape and coercion I'm definitely against that!

but simply asking for sex, pursuing one's natural desire, should be allowed for everyone! no guru should be sexually castrated because he or she are looked upto!

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Arkandeus