The "OTHER"ing Problem and Being Unwise with Paradigm Choice

[Haumea2018]

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Absolutely. It's all one huge social pattern that's a lot more complex than meets the eye. Right now, we're seeing a lot of upheaval because we are becoming more aware of that which has been relegated to the shadow of humanity. And it's ugly right now... but it will likely give way to more consciousness.

I agree with that wholeheartedly.

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That said, if we can temper that effect so that it doesn't destroy so many people, we should. So, I will always try to make people aware through words before the world steps in with circumstance and really drives the point across. 

We should temper that effect -- but in an honest way that doesn't oversimplify the issues involved, because our attempts at tempering will backfire on us, since we will be seen as, at best, naïve or oblivious, or at worst, dishonest, unfair or agenda-driven.

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So, if a person has adopted non-duality as ideology and not as a path, then all of reality will become a blindspot.

You can substitute "social justice" for "non-duality" and the statement would be equally accurate and no less problematic.  If you refuse to see that, then I would suggest that such a blindspot may be operating.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Key Elements]

58 minutes ago, Emerald said:

There is a lot of invalidation of the most practical things. I think so many people want so much to progress on the spiritual path, that they lose sight of more obvious realities. 

Yes.

All right. Here's something even more basic. A person has a 9-5 job. He's stressed. Doesn't like his job. Learns some skills. Gets a career he likes. Still doesn't like it because of the long hrs.

Ok then! Time to progress. What next? Went to the bookstore. Bought excellent books on entrepreneurship. Learns about passive income and how it works. Learns about networking. He needs a good website to attract attention, but don't have the skills to build one. Went networking and ppl talk about this awesome lady who is a talented graphic artist. (This process could get him financially free one day!)

Cool! He thought. Then, he met this graphic artist lady that everyone talks about. And was kind of shocked??? Oh man...He couldn't believe it! She's a different "race," and he thought she's "ugly." Her face was disfigured! He kind of points it out to her during their business lunch together. She felt uncomfortable and left.

Let's look at this basic situation a little closer. Shall we? Why even bother about her appearance? Why point it out? Now he learns that he lacks basic social skills. Is this what you're looking for, Emerald?

Luckily, the man apologizes to the graphic artist and learned his lesson. He never judged like that again. So, they continued working together.

 

For this to happen, for a person to learn all these lessons for real, a person has to take action. Again, you cannot be sluggish. 

Yes, entrepreneurship and networking are the next basic steps.

Job = just over broke

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Yes.

All right. Here's something even more basic. A person has a 9-5 job. He's stressed. Doesn't like his job. Learns some skills. Gets a career he likes. Still doesn't like it because of the long hrs.

Ok then! Time to progress. What next? Went to the bookstore. Bought excellent books on entrepreneurship. Learns about passive income and how it works. Learns about networking. He needs a good website to attract attention, but don't have the skills to build one. Went networking and ppl talk about this awesome lady who is a talented graphic artist. (This process could get him financially free one day!)

Cool! He thought. Then, he met this graphic artist lady that everyone talks about. And was kind of shocked??? Oh man...He couldn't believe it! She's a different "race," and he thought she's "ugly." Her face was disfigured! He kind of points it out to her during their business lunch together. She felt uncomfortable and left.

Let's look at this basic situation a little closer. Shall we? Why even bother about her appearance? Why point it out? Now he learns that he lacks basic social skills. Is this what you're looking for, Emerald?

Luckily, the man apologizes to the graphic artist and learned his lesson. He never judged like that again. So, they continued working together.

 

For this to happen, for a person to learn all these lessons for real, a person has to take action. Again, you cannot be sluggish. 

Yes, entrepreneurship and networking are the next basic steps.

Job = just over broke

This seems to not be related to my point at all. I don't understand how it connects. 

Practically speaking, the guy was being a jerk and probably won't get the awesome graphic artist to do work for him because he criticized her race and appearance. So, he'll probably have to get someone else who is less talented to do his graphics work. So, yes, he showed a severe lack of social skills. 

But what I'm talking about is actually something that doesn't really take a lot of action steps to go an do. It has a lot more to do with centering more into reality and perceiving of it accurately enough to discern which paradigm is appropriate for a given situation.

So, if we use your example. The guy has a 9-5 job and he stressed, but he denies that he's stressed because he defers to higher spiritual truths that seem to invalidate his feeling of stress. So, he represses his stressed out feelings and never realizes how unhappy is... because all is one... right? Then, he lives unconsciously miserably ever after. The end.

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

So, if we use your example. The guy has a 9-5 job and he stressed, but he denies that he's stressed because he defers to higher spiritual truths that seem to invalidate his feeling of stress. So, he represses his stressed out feelings and never realizes how unhappy is... because all is one... right? Then, he lives unconsciously miserably ever after. The end.

Ok cool. Look, I just said that example to make it clear for all. No offense. Thanks for making it clear. I really do think that entrepreneurship, networking, and learning to socialize in that area are the next steps. Than taking a leap to being focused on 'all is one.' If someone is too focused and obsessed with something, even 'all is one,' it just doesn't work. The awareness isn't there anymore. It's lost. The lessons of life isn't learned anymore. It has stopped.

A person has to keep taking the appropriate steps for awareness and not be stuck.

I'm just trying to define the action steps to not be stuck, and what to do to snap out of it. You know...wake up call.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Outer said:

I think you're the one who has extreme views. You've been very unkind to white men. Because of what you wrote one day, which made me flabbergasted, really made me interested on this topic. So thank you for that. It was really a wake-up call.

History has shown that people like yourself will always find themselves down a road to Fascism when the opportunity presents itself. So, no need to thank me. You have only your own unconsciousness and ideology-clinging to blame. 

[Arkandeus]

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I call them that because they are ignorant and/or gullible. I am simply calling a spade a spade. They are not that way on purpose as no one would consciously choose ignorance or gullibility if they realized that they were being gullible or ignorant. 

Life is hard, and people are vulnerable. So, anyone can end up in a situation like that with so many blind-spots. I plainly see how I could have ended up in the same trap.

hmm, what about your higher self? you are guided and kept safe no matter where you are, in this life or another, all of us are never truly lost

 

I truly think it is important that you keep your heart in mind with your insights, keep in mind how it feels

we all reflect each other in unity, and everything you say about others you say in in the mirror, to yourself really

 

there is no above or below ,there is one united horizon, one sphere, that is my opinion

 

[Haumea2018]

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History has shown that people like yourself will always find themselves down a road to Fascism when the opportunity presents itself. So, no need to thank me. You have only your own unconsciousness and ideology-clinging to blame. 

See, unfortunately that's what I was talking about.

A refusal to see oneself as anything other than righteous and good is the recipe for producing the opposite of one's intended results.  

There's an old Ram Dass diagram in "Be Here Now."

Cops create Hippies create Cops create Hippies....in a circle.

Just substitute "SJWs" and "WNs" and it still fits, almost half a century later.

Sorry, Emerald, we're all part "good" and part "bad", and you're no exception.

 

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

hmm, what about your higher self? you are guided and kept safe no matter where you are, in this life or another, all of us are never truly lost

 

I truly think it is important that you keep your heart in mind with your insights, keep in mind how it feels

we all reflect each other in unity, and everything you say about others you say in in the mirror, to yourself really

 

there is no above or below ,there is one united horizon, one sphere, that is my opinion

 

Unfortunately, this is the exact spiritual bypassing that I was talking about. 

If a lion is running at you, just repeat these ideas and all the danger will melt away into spiritual bliss... OR you'll be mauled by a lion for not being properly aware of the goings-on within duality. Either way, it doesn't matter because "All is one." You never cared about your life because you're aware that death is an illusion. So, whenever you're being mauled, you will not feel any sense of terror or suffering. You're beyond that... right?

Truth is not opinions or ideas. 

And if you are not abiding in Truth, then you will certainly be effected by negative life circumstances. 

The best thing that you can do now is be really honest with where you are, and stop deceiving yourself that you're so detached from outcomes. Anyone can repeat these ideas and believe in these ideas. But when the rubber meets the road, you will immediately become aware that these ideas don't keep you safe from harm and that you're not above pain and suffering.

Ask yourself, have you ever experienced ego transcendence. If the answer is no, you don't know anything about it. Or truly, even if you have, you are not abiding in that state now. So, duality is likely very real to you. 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

See, unfortunately that's what I was talking about.

A refusal to see oneself as anything other than righteous and good is the recipe for producing the opposite of one's intended results.  

There's an old Ram Dass diagram in "Be Here Now."

Cops create Hippies create Cops create Hippies....in a circle.

Just substitute "SJWs" and "WNs" and it still fits, almost half a century later.

Sorry, Emerald, we're all part "good" and part "bad", and you're no exception.

 

I never denied this. I made a video about it actually. I talk about how everyone has a "good' drive and an "evil" drive that they can fall prey to if they are unaware of the evil drive and don't have it integrated into their conscious awareness.

But all this "there are two sides" stuff is just not true. It's an entire social pattern that's far more complex than there being two sides. There are thousands of factors that are leading to this problem. And I feel like you think I'm some random SJW parroting talking liberal talking points. I am not. I just see something really negative coming and I'm trying to warn people of it.

That said, the problem that these thousands of factors are leading up to will be enacted by one of those "sides". And that "side" is actively recruiting people who are gullible and vulnerable enough to buy into it. So, I'm not demonizing anyone. I just don't want other people to be gullible enough to fall prey to those harmful groups and their ideologies.

[lmfao]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

There's a very disturbing trend happening in society where gullible and ignorant people are being sold on "OTHER"ing propaganda en masse. 

People are getting swept up in ideologies of hatred and "OTHER"ness that I can only see leading to terrible destructive things. 

@Emerald The trend has existed pretty much forever.

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

And there are people on this forum who are twisting non-dual truths to bolster their own beliefs in this regard. And there are people on this forum who are not sold on this propaganda, but habitually defer to non-dual truths as a reason to accept it as equally valid to beliefs that are not of an exclusionary nature. This is spiritual bypassing.

This muddying of spiritual perspectives and practical perspectives is causing a LOT of problems. Paradigms are mutually exclusive and you shouldn't try to put your feet in two paradigms at a time. So, if you're talking from two different perspectives, then makes sure you're talking from them one at a time, and not mixing them together and distorting them to fit your views. 

So, I want to point to this danger of spiritual bypassing and thinking that the only valid perspective is the non-dual perspective. There are practical perspectives that are often even more applicable to life than higher spiritual perspectives. In fact, that's the case most of the time.

For example, if your task is to chop wood and carry water, than you won't be able to defer to some higher spiritual truth to get the job done. The practical truth is that you must do it. 

Or if you see something harmful coming down the pipe, then you won't be able to defer to some higher spiritual truth to avoid it. The practical truth is that you must continue to call a spade a spade and never waiver to harmful ideologies. 

Non-dual truth can't be explained in words which is part of the whole problem in talking to people. The best I can probably say is that is every facet of your consciousness is spontaneous and that EVERYTHING is equal. I felt this experience very strongly today when meditating. You speak of people using non-dual truths to bolster their "other - ising " beliefs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... I've read some things on this forum I deem to be fall into the category you describe, and it is wrong/egoic,  but if I my memory is correct very little of what they were saying had non-duality as a discussion point. I'd be interested if you could link me an example of where you think this is true. You're probably right in calling some people out but I from what I know non-duality has very little to do with it. But I will still say that their perspectives are "valid", but of course "valid" is a word which is always relative to something. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by lmfao

[Haumea2018]

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But all this "there are two sides" stuff is just not true. It's an entire social pattern that's far more complex than there being two sides. There are thousands of factors that are leading to this problem. And I feel like you think I'm some random SJW parroting talking liberal talking points. I am not. I just see something really negative coming and I'm trying to warn people of it.

You're technically correct that it's not so much two sides but rather there's an ideology that's sometimes referred to as a "progressive stack" or "hierarchy of victimhood" or "intersectionality," although one can hardly be blamed for reducing it to two sides from a certain perspective.  Certainly there's "one side" that is the universal oppressor, even if the rest represent gradations of victimhood.

The point is, that ideology is pure poison, and refusal to see it and even engaging in it is tantamount to fighting fire with gasoline. [And obviously, so is any form of fanatical tribalism, including fascism and WN.]

It has no endgame that is in any way positive, but is a means to divide and antagonize as a means of maintaining power and control.

So if you do not want something negative to come this way, consider that there may be better, more evolved (win-win) alternatives to this ideology and that supporting or condoning win-lose scenarios is ultimately a lose-lose proposition. Even if you understand the theory behind the shadow, theory is not enough.  We must live out the propositions we espouse in the most convincing way possible.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Haumea2018

[lmfao]

 

23 minutes ago, Outer said:

Damn, man, you're very sharp and on point. Continuously.

Your comment of support validates my existence and gives me an ego high. Thank you very much. 

[Emerald]

You guys believe in whichever ideologies that you want to believe in. I'm not here to argue with people who are already sold of Fascist ideologies.

And I'm not here to argue with people who are not sold on Fascist beliefs, but unwittingly open the door for Fascism by performing mental gymnastics and ignoring the fact that "bad things are bad" from the dualistic perspective. 

Sometimes, the truth "bad things are bad" is the wisest and most obvious truth to realize. It's a relative truth. So, it's not non-dual. And a very simple one at that. But sometimes the simplicity of it is what can bring people back down to reality, so that they are no longer falling into traps set by White Nationalist groups that are using the abundance of nuance to trick people into falling for their rhetoric. 

I hope that some of you come to realize the trap that you're falling into.

[SOUL]

This is a forum that is obsessed with the notion that the belief concepts in their mind are 'real' and the manifest reality they live in is 'false' so this issue you mention shouldn't be surprising. Haha

Edited September 4, 2018 by SOUL

[Emerald]

58 minutes ago, SOUL said:

This is a forum that is obsessed with the notion that the belief concepts in their mind are 'real' and the manifest reality they live in is 'false' so this issue you mention shouldn't be surprising. Haha

Unfortunately, it's not surprising. But yes, that's part of the inconsistency that I was referring to with regard to muddying paradigms and becoming gullible as a result. 

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Outer said:

You're not making arguments for your case, just preaching that something is bad without saying why.

I already talked at length about my points earlier on in this thread.

Now, if you think I'm going to debate you about why White Nationalism is harmful, I simply won't. It's very obvious why preferring one racial group over another leads to terrible things. Just open a history book, and you'll see plenty of examples. 

[Haumea2018]

If everyone like you, with any kind of social media presence, would denounce any kind of racism (including that against perceived "oppressor" groups), WN would lose steam in a heartbeat.  But you won't, because you likely believe that racism against those groups is justified.  If you don't, then come out and say so.  Make a video about it. 

So you will likely continue fueling that which you say you fear.  The progressive form of "nuance" is that some racism is ok because reasons. Well, sorry, it isn't.  Collective punishment is specifically outlawed in the Geneva Convention.  Have we fallen so far that a 1940s document is more advanced than we are today?  This is regression to tribalism.

I'm afraid things will get a lot worse before they get better.  Growing pains and all.  Too bad, because it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.  But too many think it's the only game in town.

[lmfao]

@Outer My question to you is, what's the point of discussing what your preferences tend to be? I'm assuming that from your life experiences you've found than you click with white people more on average right? But even if that is true, of what use is that information? Like this whole topic seems quite pointless. Even if I click with Asian people more on average, I judge every person I meet as an individual before I decide if I want to be close friends with them. If race doesn't factor into my (and perhaps your) decision making in day to day life then of what use is this discussion? I see the racial pattern as a happenstance I care very little for. I get that you're saying that you prefer the company of white people because you connect with them more on average ( and not for the sole reason that their skin color is white I'm assuming) but I don't get what the point of white nationalism is. Is it just that you think there should be a space for "white culture" in the world, the same way that there is "Mexican culture"? 

[Emerald]

57 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

If everyone like you, with any kind of social media presence, would denounce any kind of racism (including that against perceived "oppressor" groups), WN would lose steam in a heartbeat.  But you won't, because you likely believe that racism against those groups is justified.  If you don't, then come out and say so.  Make a video about it. 

So you will likely continue fueling that which you say you fear.  The progressive form of "nuance" is that some racism is ok because reasons. Well, sorry, it isn't.  Collective punishment is specifically outlawed in the Geneva Convention.  Have we fallen so far that a 1940s document is more advanced than we are today?  This is regression to tribalism.

I'm afraid things will get a lot worse before they get better.  Growing pains and all.  Too bad, because it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.  But too many think it's the only game in town.

I never said that some forms of racism are okay. You're just projecting. 

My channel is for consciousness development and not for furthering any political agenda. So, I will make no such video.

All I'm saying is that beliefs in White Nationalism are a symptom of unconsciousness, and that it leads to terrible things as evidenced by history. 

And that people are using higher order truths taken as an intellectual beliefs to trick people into sympathizing more with extremist views. And a lot of people are falling for these ideologies because they've invalidated practical truths like, "bad things are bad". They're afraid that noticing this is un-spiritual or intolerant... so they spiritually bypass the entire situation and convince themselves that everything is sunshine and rainbows. This leaves them very open to manipulations. White supremacist groups know how to leverage nuanced thinking to their advantage because of these space for leverage. 

That was my entire point.

You can think that people on the left are causing this all you want. It's certainly caused by a whole host of complex things. But the fact of the matter is that the problem being caused by all those things is White Nationalism. So, don't say... "White Nationalism isn't a problem because the liberals caused it." That makes no sense. You can think that liberals caused it. But it doesn't make it not a problem that should be dealt with and called for what it is. 

So, stop projecting liberal ideologies onto my perspective. And start recognizing a person noticing things that are actually happening.

 

 

[lmfao]

@Outer as long as your viewpoint is fueled by good intentions and love for yourself and everybody, then your viewpoint is at the very least understandable in my eyes. I've always thought that people of different cultures and races can inhabit the same country, it just takes maturity on the part of people in that society.