Self Inquiry or strong determination sitting???

[Tony 845]

Personally I do them both at the same time...? But it seems most people that become fully enlightened Echart, adyashnti, shinzen young did it by inquiring...what are some other ways to become enlightened????

Edited September 2, 2018 by Tony 845
Added something

[dorg]

I take SDS as simply being still for a certain amount of time. However I see self-inquiry as not being still, but inquiring.

How do you see these if you do them both at the same time.

[Salvijus]

13 hours ago, Tony 845 said:

what are some other ways to become enlightened????

Yoga, kriya, vipassana, self-inquiry, Zen. These are some good ones. But to be fair there're actually bilions and bilions of ways to get there

[Tony 845]

@dorg in sds sits the body is still but you can inquire at the same time, Monkey mind is still there anyway, may as well utilize it.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Tony 845
Grammar

[PsiloPutty]

18 minutes ago, Tony 845 said:

@dorg in sds sits the body is still but you can inquire at the same time, Monkey mind is still there anyway, may as well utilize it.

I agree with this. Strong determination sitting isn't about being still mentally, necessarily. It's about being still physically. The determination that you make is to not move. 

[Tony 845]

@PsiloPutty I'm at 2 hours & 15 minutes, that a huge amount for someone only doing this 4-5 months, it really is some powerful stuff, 3 weeks ago it felt like energy or fire was pouring out of the top of my crown shakra for like a minute or 2, kundalini is starting to awaken!!! I've only been on this enlightenment journey about 9 months, pretty happy with the results, thanks Leo!!!

Edited September 3, 2018 by Tony 845
Grammar

[PsiloPutty]

That's excellent, man. Ironically, that is exactly how long I have gone as well, and that was just two weeks ago. I do it every Saturday morning. I think it's great for purging shit that is deep down.

[PsiloPutty]

I sit on a zafu, in Burmese position. It took me about 2 weeks of doing it daily before my back stopped hurting. Now it's second nature, and doesn't start hurting until about 2 hours or a little less, and it's my ass that hurts at that point. I've been thinking about getting myself used to sitting in half Lotus, just to see how that compares to Burmese. Might actually start that today, thank you for reminding me. 

[Privet]

I guess we can distinguish a "long sit" and SDS.

SDS is a technique of meditation by itself. The idea of SDS is to make yourself very uncomfortable by sitting for long and learn to let go of suffering caused by that pain of impatience and physical discomfort. In my experience anything below 1h can't be called SDS for most of people.

While a long sit is when you take a technique (for example self-inquiry) and maintain in during a long period of time.

The truth is that if you sit long it's often very difficult to maintain self-inquiry technique. Most of the time you will spend on surrendering to the pain. Unless you have hundreds/thousands hours behind your back and you have complete physical pliancy.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Privet

[starsofclay]

@Tony 845 @PsiloPutty from what I understand, SDS is about feeling and surrendering to boredom until you realize there is no boredom. Utilizing the monkey mind instead of observing it defeats the full potential because you are somewhat entertaining yourself, therefore not completely bored. 

[PsiloPutty]

@Privet @starsofclay   Yep, I agree with what you both had to say, although I think the minimum length of an SDS is totally dependent on the meditator.

When I first started meditating, 45 minutes was an extremely difficult length of time to sit quietly and motionless without panicking and opening my eyes to end it. That was a SDS for me at that point, in every way that 2+ hours is for me now. The mental crisis at the end of these sits is exactly the same, it just takes longer to get there as you go along in your meditation practice. 

And it doesn't have to be linear, either. If I'm especially worked up about something mentally, I might sit down and remain motionless for only 60 minutes before that point of mental crisis develops and the battle begins. If I bail out at the 65 minute mark, that's a complete SDS right there, with no shame or defeat. 'Sitting motionless as long as you feel able to" is a SDS, regardless of how long you have done it in the past.  

[starsofclay]

@PsiloPutty I agree that when starting to meditate, any attempt up to your max time doubles as an SDS... Lol for sure! 

[PsiloPutty]

One thing that I will admit, and I was reminded of it when making my last post, is that I am struggling to keep my ego separate from the work of strong determination sits.

I'm guessing it's super common, but I at times get so caught up with wanting to beat my record that I halfway forget why I'm doing it. LOL, I always remember again when I get to the freakout phase, but I tend sometimes to treat the sits like a juggler would treat progressively adding another ball. You know what I mean? I think letting the time become the focus is a real hazard with with this practice. I'm trying to stay more mindful of that.......as I try to add 10 minutes per month.   

[starsofclay]

@Mikael89 well I think its both, but not everyone can easily surrender to the boredom and lack of stimulation

Edited September 3, 2018 by starsofclay

[Tony 845]

@PsiloPutty the 1st hour & 1/2 I inquire then after that the pain starts in & the inquiry goes out the window for the most part...my kundalini feeling that I got came when I stopped trying to fight the pain & just let it happen.

[Tony 845]

@Mikael89 I sit on a couple of pillows probably 2-3ft from a blank wall, it took me 30-40 sits to get this 2 hour + mark..even a 5-10 minute increase in a sit is very hard.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Tony 845
Grammar

[PsiloPutty]

@Tony 845  I always get a special feeling at those times of surrender, but I've never had anything way out of the ordinary happen like that, so I'm happy for you! Did you open your eyes and end the sit right after that, or stick with it to see if it would come again? LOL, I would probably end up with a three-hour sit, just waiting to see if it would happen again!

[dorg]

10 hours ago, Tony 845 said:

@dorg in sds sits the body is still but you can inquire at the same time, Monkey mind is still there anyway, may as well utilize it.

I see the point of sds as just being, not moving, or having, either body or mind.

 

[Tony 845]

@PsiloPutty buzzer rang shortly after, I just got up & i wanted see if I felt any different, ego Ect etc, I was the same ?‍♂️?‍♂️

[PsiloPutty]

Ha, when you stood up were you like "soooo, am I all enlightened and shit?"  Still it's nice to know that you can have those experiences. I'm waiting for my first one, but enjoying things along the way. I'm not in a hurry.