Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[DnoReally]

These videos really helped me understand the way in which pop-culture depicts gender stereotypes. Also fits in the discussion above:

 

 

The channel overall is great

 

[Leo Gura]

This is really a discussion about feminism, and a lack of understanding of it's historical development and function in society.

If you want to start a thread about understanding feminism, go for it. But let's get not derail this thread any further with debates about the validity of feminism.

This threat for posting more Stage Green examples, positive and negative ones. Remember, to understand Stage Green is not the same as saying it is the end-all-be-all and that it doesn't have its problems and limits. There are much higher worldviews than Green. But to not understand Green is an obstacle to reaching those. Green's validity needs to be acknowledged to go higher.

[CreamCat]

On 11/26/2019 at 8:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

How would you feel if all guys in video games were depicted with giant dicks, making your girlfriend ask you, "Why is your dick so small?"

Just to clarify,

• Personally I think it is a bad manner to ridicule small breasts, small dick, or saggy breasts although people can have strong preferences.
• In my country, there are large organized teams of radical feminists who leave comments just to call my country's men tiny dicks. They constantly compare us with foreign guys who presumably have larger dicks. They organize and plot domination plans in their online headquarters. They call us tiny dicks or little dicks on internet news comment sections, various internet communities, and so on where our dick size is irrelevant. It has been going on for years.
  • Personally, I've accepted judgments although they keep claiming that my dick is half the actual size. They clearly haven't seen my dick. Constantly being reminded of my small dick is quite a humbling experience that keeps my feet to the fire of reality.
  • I've learned that judgments are inevitable and must not be taken seriously.

Edited November 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat But Sarkisian is not trying to belittle men. She is just pointing out certain imbalances.

[CreamCat]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@CreamCat But Sarkisian is not trying to belittle men. She is just pointing out certain imbalances.

Not sure how imbalances can be balanced out. I'm not fond of forcing young men to stop creating sexy fictional women or of forcing game companies to hire women just to balance out. There are better ways.

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat A good start would be to HEAR the critique and take it seriously rather than denying it or attacking the messenger.

Awareness alone is curative. Yet even that is denied. Let's start by admitting there is a problem. How it gets balanced out we will figure out along the way.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura I'm aware that content creators create whatever they want to create. Especially, one-man entrepreneurs. If they can't, they would rather quit. What they want to create can range from sexy fictional women to in-world slang that nobody but the author of the novel understands.

There are non-negotiable stylistic choices of content creators.

Even if male content creators were aware of those critiques, I don't know what they can do, short of segregating target audience by sex or looking for other careers or alternating between target audiences with each piece of content.

If half of a game's characters are sexy and the other half were not, women are still going to complain about it. So, I think target audience segregation is going to be done. There is no easy short-term solution.

Meanwhile, more women can join the game industry. It's not like game industry as whole is actively avoiding women. Perhaps, too much overwork in the game industry repels women. I suspect improving labor condition will encourage more women to join. Perhaps, young immature men are too eager and too gullible to refuse bad labor conditions at low wages.

Edited November 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[Extreme Z7]

@CreamCat It's not a matter of individual creative decisions. You're still in-denial about the industry's culture being systematically run by toxic masculinity values.
 

58 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Perhaps, too much overwork in the game industry repels women. I suspect improving labor condition will encourage more women to join.

Yikes, man. What you just said implies that women are inherently lazier than men.

[remember]

perhaps it’s the mixture of butts, murder and competition about the games why women don’t take part in it so much - women take on an educational mandate more often, you also find more of them in social studies etc. this is maybe not because of the gaming industry itself, but also because the gamers are mainly male - guys who like gaming might prefer artificial buts before actually becoming attractive to women - who prefer something else. that’s how gaming industry became mainly a niche. and that’s why it’s unattractive to women, working conditions would probably not be the reason if women where attracted to the work - but it’s not about what they like to get attention for in their art. why should anyone want to get attention in work for their buts?
(the women who did, made big buts acceptable in real life, female buts have always been discussed controversially - it’s really interesting though who decides on how our buts have to look like.)
i guess it’s the same as with automotive desig - it’s not that automotive would not be fun, it’s just that they mostly are made to attract males, and introducing something new would be difficult, design in general has a long history trying to be more attractive to men, and men if they don’t know what women like, they oftentimes just make a pink variation of it - that’s why there are fast pink cars. it has some art factor on its own, although under a certain light it all looks...

Edited November 29, 2019 by remember
maybe we could all just conclude that but(t) and titt envy exists - follow my but if you dare.

[CreamCat]

4 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

You're still in-denial about the industry's culture being systematically run by toxic masculinity values.

I cannot be in denial of something I don't know about. If there is something like a system, it certainly wasn't centrally planned or designed by a small group of people. The game industry organically grew. There is no deliberate design to it.

Saying game industry was centrally designed to be shitty is like saying africa's shitty situation was centrally designed by a tiny group of central committee.

4 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Yikes, man. What you just said implies that women are inherently lazier than men.

That's your interpretation. I can interpret that young immature men are too eager, too gullible, or too desperate.

Wisdom is not laziness. It doesn't make much sense to work hard for free for someone else's benefits.

A lot of unpaid overwork is stupid unless you own a substantial amount of the company you work for.

Edited November 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[Extreme Z7]

10 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

I cannot be in denial of something I don't know about. If there is something like a system, it certainly wasn't centrally planned or designed by a small group of people. The game industry organically grew. There is no deliberate design to it.

Saying game industry was centrally designed to be shitty is like saying africa's shitty situation was centrally designed by a tiny group of central committee.

I did not say it was purposefully designed. The fact that it became that way naturally is not even a good thing.
Also, that's a red herring. The specific way in which the system came to be is not what's relevant here
 

15 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

That's your interpretation. I can interpret that young immature men are too eager, too gullible, or too desperate.

Wisdom is not laziness. It doesn't make much sense to work hard for free for someone else's benefits.

I had a feeling you were going to say that. That's still sexist, though. You're engaging with the stereo-type of boys being dumb, low-brow neanderthals and girls being down-to-earth, pragmatic independent thinkers.

The actual issue here is that the AAA game industry as a whole still appeals largely to a male audience so of course, most aspiring game devs who want to work in big game companies will be male.

[CreamCat]

48 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

The actual issue here is that the AAA game industry as a whole still appeals largely to a male audience so of course, most aspiring game devs who want to work in big game companies will be male.

I don't care that much whether a certain big industry caters to men or women or monkeys. All of it is totally out of my control.

Let me remind you that there are also toxic femininity cultures in female-dominated industries.

That's also out of my control.

In my opinion, workers need more attention than customers who can just avoid the products or services. In game industry, men rat each other out to managers, so they cannot form unions. In some female-dominated industries, women harass each other to suicide and depression. Just adding more women to game industry doesn't make it better if the quality of women you add to it is not better than the quality of men in game industry. Given that game industry tends to attract shitty men, it can easily attract shitty women, too.

Edited November 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[DnoReally]

10 hours ago, CreamCat said:

In my country, there are large organized teams of radical feminists who leave comments just to call my country's men tiny dicks.

Where are you from dude, holy shit

[CreamCat]

16 hours ago, DnoReally said:

Where are you from dude, holy shit

I don't want to reveal my location for privacy reasons. It's not a third world country.

[SoothedByRain]

Artistic Stage Green response to the election of Donald Trump. 

"Ring me ring me ring me up,

The President,

Find out where my baby went,

Ring me ring me ring me up,

The FBI,

Find out if my babys alive."

[SoothedByRain]

 

[V-8]

 

Overall not much interested in the Substance Stages of SD, although most should be, because militant Greens ( NO SAFE SPACES) have the potential of plunging humanity into another Dark Age, as Blue (SD 4) did a millennia ago,...not in the name of some theistic belief, but an Aquarian belief in pluralism, such as everyone gets a prize.  

I do disagree with several "key words" from the first post:

Intuition over logic:   Green acts from feeling, not intuition.  "99% of what you feel is actually based on what you're thinking" - Adyashanti

Openmindedness:  implies a willingness to consider new ideas.  "First-tier thinkers (first 6 substance levels of Spiral Dynamics) cannot recognize the Second-tier on their own, and react negatively if challenged; lashing out whenever it is threatened."  Clare Graves

Spirituality:  Most have a personal definition of Spirituality, which has no grasp of Spirit.  Spirit....from the Latin spiritus, or breath,...relates to the in-breath (yang, masculine energy) and out-breath (yin, feminine energy) of duality's phenomenal world,...that is, how this illusory Dream reality breaths.  Spirit ONLY exists within the perception of separation.  Without separation, there is no Spirit.  Spirituality should imply that one has an awareness of the nature of Spirit,...Particle/Wave, Sphere/Torus, Yang/Yin.  

Femininity:   is among the most misunderstood words.  I've actually written a book on the subject called 'Collage - for integration with the Feminine.'   As for why the term feminine should not be associated with Green, nor any of the Substance Stages (SD 1-6) is this:  the Feminine of Duality is not a gender of Form, but the Wave of a Particle.

Compassion:  Yes, Greens like to view themselves as compassionate, yet it is merely a relative compassion.  Real Compassion belongs with Turquoise (SD 8).  "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." HH Dalai Lama.

"The realization of emptiness and compassion arise simultaneously.'  Padmasambhava

Soul:  Gurdjieff made an interesting comment about soul:  "Blessed is he who has a soul, blessed is he who has none, but woe and grief to him who has it in embryo."
"Contrary to many opinions, just because you have a self, doesn't mean you have a soul."  Gabrielle Roth
"When we lack integrity, our souls can't inhabit us."  Gabrielle Roth

Heart:  from a spiritual point of view, any discussion of Heart should include the differences between Thymos/gnowledge and Psyche/knowledge.  Greens are not ready for such a discussion.

Love:  from a relative point of view there are many types of love which can be associated with the Substance Stages of SD,...biological, chemical, instinctual, emotional, or mental feelings.  Agape is an example of  mental love,...1 Cor 13:7 describes it as, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”  This form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is not authentic love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

"Love can never dominate the world until man ceases to live a primarily sensed existence and knows the Light of the spirit within him" - Walter Russell

Edited December 13, 2019 by V-8

[remember]

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Intuition over logic:   Green acts from feeling, not intuition.  "99% of what you feel is actually based on what you're thinking" - Adyashanti

that`s wrong, intuition is part of all stages and green is def rediscovering intuition although yes green is acting on feeling but so is red - even the adyashanti quote can be read like a equation as the reversing circuit is equally possible:

99% of what you think is actually based on what you are feeling. this is because there is not really a difference between a thought and an emotion, emotion and thought and intuition are intertwined and can not be seperated. in that sense like red, green can be kind of impulsive, more sensual or analytic but this is based on other colours that play a roll in greens individual development, green has an intuitive access to emotions. all you criticise is that their intuitive access is based on that rather than on sytems thinking, green is where sytems thinking starts though it is the stage where a lot of basic knowledge about sytems is gathered. so again green approaches everything more intuitively.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Openmindedness:  implies a willingness to consider new ideas.  "First-tier thinkers (first 6 substance levels of Spiral Dynamics) cannot recognize the Second-tier on their own, and react negatively if challenged; lashing out whenever it is threatened."  Clare Graves

this is a relative notice - green is the first stage that is openminded. ego control and openmindedness don`t confuse these two.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Spirituality:  Most have a personal definition of Spirituality, which has no grasp of Spirit.  Spirit....from the Latin spiritus, or breath,...relates to the in-breath (yang, masculine energy) and out-breath (yin, feminine energy) of duality's phenomenal world,...that is, how this illusory Dream reality breaths.  Spirit ONLY exists within the perception of separation.  Without separation, there is no Spirit.  Spirituality should imply that one has an awareness of the nature of Spirit,...Particle/Wave, Sphere/Torus, Yang/Yin.  

what the op refers to is not the spiritual definition of spirituality, but the approach of green towards the world - green starts to intuit spirituality. you are pretty blue here expecting others to have the same spirituality as you have.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Femininity:   is among the most misunderstood words.  I've actually written a book on the subject called 'Collage - for integration with the Feminine.'   As for why the term feminine should not be associated with Green, nor any of the Substance Stages (SD 1-6) is this:  the Feminine of Duality is not a gender of Form, but the Wave of a Particle.

green starts to leave patriarchal power structures, and in rediscovering a venus symbol it is def a gender of form.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Compassion:  Yes, Greens like to view themselves as compassionate, yet it is merely a relative compassion.  Real Compassion belongs with Turquoise (SD 8).  "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." HH Dalai Lama.

"The realization of emptiness and compassion arise simultaneously.'  Padmasambhava

again green starts to discover, and green also gives their best, so yes green is already compassionate, even a master had to start as a child.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Soul:  Gurdjieff made an interesting comment about soul:  "Blessed is he who has a soul, blessed is he who has none, but woe and grief to him who has it in embryo."
"Contrary to many opinions, just because you have a self, doesn't mean you have a soul."  Gabrielle Roth
"When we lack integrity, our souls can't inhabit us."  Gabrielle Roth

depends on definition of soul and your beliefs - if you believe everything has soul, there can`t be a soulless being except those who say they don`t own one, maybe they are one. (couldn`t find anything about it in the op).

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Heart:  from a spiritual point of view, any discussion of Heart should include the differences between Thymos/gnowledge and Psyche/knowledge.  Greens are not ready for such a discussion.

if greens are not ready for a discussion about heart, it might be that they are still stuck in blue - heart chakra can be emotionally perceived if you are not ready to discuss heart chakra with green, maybe you are not there yet? sorry to be that blunt.

2 hours ago, V-8 said:

Love:  from a relative point of view there are many types of love which can be associated with the Substance Stages of SD,...biological, chemical, instinctual, emotional, or mental feelings.  Agape is an example of  mental love,...1 Cor 13:7 describes it as, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”  This form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is not authentic love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

that`s a definition of blue, not green.

Edited December 13, 2019 by remember

[V-8]

remember said
"if greens are not ready for a discussion about heart, it might be that they are still stuck in blue - heart chakra can be emotionally perceived if you are not ready to discuss heart chakra with green, maybe you are not there yet? sorry to be that blunt."

Thanks for proving my point.

Yes,...I understand it can be very difficult to hear that what you believe to be meaningful, is actually meaningless. At least Yellow (SD 7) would be open to learning at any time and from any source,  like bees that gather nectar from many flowers,...the Substance Levels are as caterpillars,...feeding off the land,...without the slightest idea of what a butterfly is.

As I quoted from Clare Graves, "First-tier thinkers (first 6 substance levels of Spiral Dynamics) cannot recognize the Second-tier on their own, and react negatively if challenged; lashing out whenever it is threatened."  

The lower 6 Substance Levels of Spiral Dynamics are tough places to be,...they believe they know all these things relative to their SD level, yet at Second-Tier all those beliefs are irrelevant.

The lower 6 Substance Levels of Spiral Dynamics are Sentient levels,...Sentient Beings in need of liberation from their sentience (as the Bodhisattva vow implies).

 "The senses do not grasp reality in any way" Socrates

"Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth" - Lao-tzu

"The senses do not know, but man believes that his senses do know--and in that belief lies man's confusion" - Walter Russell  

“All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once.” René Descartes

"True understanding does not follow from the sense-organs."  Buddha

"The only thing I do know is that when you open your eyes and look out into the world, there's one thing you are not seeing, and that is Now." Hinze Hogendoorn

“Phenomenally, we can know no present, as it must be in the ‘past’ before our senses can complete the process of recording it, leaving only a suppositional past and future; noumenally, there is no question of ‘past’ or ‘future,’ but only a presence that knows neither ‘time’ nor ‘space.’ ” Wei Wu Wei

"The entire illusion was never really there,
The six sense-organs are also thus."  Guan Yin/ Avalokitesvara

"the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go."   Lao-tzu

"Do not seek it in the visible, or you'll be at it forever with no real results.  It's not visible, it's not part of the senses, it's before the senses, prior to the senses."  - Bentinho Massaro

"you think the material universe is all there is?  What mysteries lie beyond the reach of your senses?  Who are you Dr Strange?"  Ancient One; Dr Strange 2016

"Love can never dominate the world until man ceases to live a primarily sensed existence and knows the Light of the spirit within him" - Walter Russell

[SoothedByRain]

Make America Rage Again