Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[mandyjw]

32 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

My point is also, women have to deal with it, yes we should make efforts to bring change, but it's better if women just spend time on doing their work and becoming more competent instead of saying gamers or cat callers 'Please don't sexualize us'.

The purpose of this thread is to share examples of stage green, and here you are suggesting that women would be better off by reverting to stage orange values and focusing on work.

Edited November 26, 2019 by mandyjw

[CreamCat]

Reverting or revisiting? Revisiting Orange doesn't mean you give up higher stages. We all need to revisit lower stages frequently. It's not just Orange that you need to revisit. You also need to revisit Beige, Purple, etc, ...

By all means, do what you want. If you want equality, pursue it. Do your best, and prosper. Good luck.

Edited November 26, 2019 by CreamCat

[Apparition of Jack]

@Ibn Sina Let's say I take enjoyment out of making fun of people. In fact I do it so much that I do it to everyone I meet. And not just playful teasing, but straight up cruel mockery. 

Obviously a lot of people would get hurt by my behaviour, right? People would call me out and want to get me to stop. What you're essentially saying is "Why should I care about the people I hurt? I benefit from mocking people, so why should I stop?" 

And just to reinforce the point, maybe I come from a powerful group of people where mocking others is seen as a sign of wit and prestige. When people start to question my behaviour, I just say "But it's natural to mock others. That's just the way it is."

Obviously the point is that it's not "just the way it is," it's instead a set of behaviours I have been taught from the power dynamics around me and want to keep these dynamics going. All the mental and psychological damage I cause from insulting people doesn't matter to me, when really in a more conscious society it would. 

[Ibn Sina]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The purpose of this thread is to share examples of stage green, and here you are suggesting that women would be better off by reverting to stage orange values and focusing on work

Lol, no

this is my opinion on the matter-

As green, women should do all the things that green people do.  

Plant trees, fight injustices bla bla.
My point is, doing those things like wiping out ads because that would make girls feel self conscious, shouldn't be done, I don't think it is 'green' it's ego feeling insecure.

As green, women should fight for equality in patriarchy , in buisness etc.

As green, women should let men live the way they want to live  unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misundersdand.

 But 'not getting respect' that is not injustice. That is just people not liking her. No one owes anything to her.

'Injustice' in a legal court sense is one thing, 'not getting respect' 'cat calling' is completing different thing. This is the difference that I see, but many people here don't.

[Ibn Sina]

6 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Let's say I take enjoyment out of making fun of people. In fact I do it so much that I do it to everyone I meet. And not just playful teasing, but straight up cruel mockery. 

Obviously a lot of people would get hurt by my behaviour, right? People would call me out and want to get me to stop. What you're essentially saying is "Why should I care about the people I hurt? I benefit from mocking people, so why should I stop?" 

And just to reinforce the point, maybe I come from a powerful group of people where mocking others is seen as a sign of wit and prestige. When people start to question my behaviour, I just say "But it's natural to mock others. That's just the way it is."

Obviously the point is that it's not "just the way it is," it's instead a set of behaviours I have been taught from the power dynamics around me and want to keep these dynamics going. All the mental and psychological damage I cause from insulting people doesn't matter to me, when really in a more conscious society it would. 

 

Do you even fully read what I write? Or do you just react whenever you read something you don't like without fully understanding?

Go read the line about- ' having the wisdom to demarcate the line'. I have already addressed what you are saying.

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

As green, women should fight for equality in patriarchy , in buisness etc.

As green, women should let men live the way they want to live  unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misundersdand.

 But 'not getting respect' that is not injustice. That is just people not liking her. No one owes anything to her.

 

You're trying to get women to submit to doing their best to survive in a game that's rigged against them. Of course some women are gonna upset the game board, throw the cards in your face and storm off. You would too.

If everyone agrees to play A MORE FAIR GAME and it will be more fun for everyone. 

[Ibn Sina]

Just now, mandyjw said:

You're trying to get women to submit to doing their best to survive in a game that's rigged against them. Of course some women are gonna upset the game board, throw the cards in your face and storm off. You would too.

If everyone agrees to play A MORE FAIR GAME and it will be more fun for everyone. 

You have not understood  what I am saying. If you want  to believe that that is what I am saying then that's okay. But I won't add anything simply because that is not what I am saying  and you have not gone through the labour of understanding what I am saying.

[Forestluv]

“As green, women should let men live the way they want to live  unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misunderstand.”

This is a great example of blue/orange resisting green. And it was spoken from a man to a women, which adds in three scoops of green cringe. 

[Ibn Sina]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

“As green, women should let men live the way they want to live  unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misunderstand.”

This is a great example of blue/orange resisting green. And it was spoken from a man to a women, which adds in three scoops of green cringe. 

Here we go again with my friend Serotoninluv with whom I have had some great  discussions in the  past and I know his style.

How is thisa blue resisting green?Please explain. Let's brush up on my spiral dynamics knowledge.

[mandyjw]

17 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

You have not understood  what I am saying. If you want  to believe that that is what I am saying then that's okay. But I won't add anything simply because that is not what I am saying  and you have not gone through the labour of understanding what I am saying.

Well this was a waste of 20 minutes that COULD have been spent doing butt shaping exercises, and really getting me somewhere in life. 

 

 

[Ibn Sina]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

Well this was a waste of 20 minutes that COULD have been spent doing butt shaping exercises, and really getting me somewhere in life.

??

But I can assure you that what I said has some wisdom which many people have not understood, the evidence being all the resistance people are having  to what  I said. Some might be thinking that I am stage blue who thinks women should be oppressed. LOL. 

[Forestluv]

25 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

How is thisa blue resisting green?Please explain. 

Sure.

It is the perspective of a dominant group  wanting to maintain unequal power dynamics over a marginalized/oppressed group. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own self-centered perspective and unwillingness to consider, learn and understand the perspective of the marginalized/ostracized group.

Notice how all your effort is being put into getting your point across and being understood. You have put no effort in trying to understand others’ pov. You have no desire or curiosity to learn and understand the other’s pov. As a result, you will have very little understanding of others’ point of view. You will keep dismissing it with phrases like “You don’t understand what I wrote. Go back and re-read it again”. 

[Ibn Sina]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It is the perspective of a dominant group  wanting to maintain unequal power dynamics over an oppressed group. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own self-centered perspective and unwillingness consider, learn and understand the perspective of the marginalized/ostracized group

Do you think that when I said 

" As green, women should let men live the way they want to live  unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misunderstand.”

Was I talking about maintaining power over women? Read it 10 times, then think about it for 3 hours,then read my previous posts,then you        might understand what I am trying to say.

But what I won't do is go on explaining again and again the thing that I have already explained in my posts. All I am going to say is you haven't understood what I am sayin/, that is not what I am saying. I won't try let you misrepresent my message but also I won't explain again and again because it's in the post and you need to look at how I arrived at the sentence, repeating will be a waste of time.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

Was I talking about maintaining power over women? Read it 10 times, then think about it for 3 hours,then read my previous posts,then you        might understand what I am trying to say.

But what I won't do is go on explaining again and again the thing that I have already explained in my posts. All I am going to say is you haven't understood what I am saying, that is not what I am saying. I won't try let you misrepresent my message but also I won't explain again and again because it's in the post and you need to look at how I arrived at the sentence.

This is a common dynamic that keeps a mind contracted within their own pov. All the effort goes into trying to defend one’s own pov and trying to control a narrative. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own pov and resistance to learn and understand another pov. A common way for a mind to stay contracted is to say things like “you don’t understand my pov. Go back and read it 10 times until you understand it”.

This is resistance to development. In the context of this thread, resistance to understanding a green pov on gender inequality.

One aspect of green development is to begin to consider the experience and POV of other groups. Especially people in marginalize/oppressed/ostracized/stigmatized groups. In doing so, one can expand their awareness and understanding. This in turn can lead to empathy and desire fir a more inclusive and equal society.

[Ibn Sina]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is a common dynamic that keeps a mind contracted within their own pov. All the effort goes into trying to defend one’s own pov and trying to control a narrative. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own pov and resistance to learn and understand another pov. A common way for a mind to stay contracted is to say things like “you don’t understand my pov. Go back and read it 10 times until you understand it”.

This is resistance to development. In this context, resistance to understanding a green pov on gender inequality.

All I said was, go first understand what i was saying then talk, and you are saying " This is the way in which a person gets restricted in their own pov". I said first go understand what I said then talk, I am not becoming the restricted one here. First understand ME before judging me.

Secondly, I have read a  lot about stage  green. And I do understand green also. And even though I understand green, I don't have to agree with some aspects of it like not letting boys be boys because it hurts girls self esteem etc. (not the true spirit of green if you ask me)

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

And I do understand green also. 

Several people have been trying to reach out to you in this thread, yet you don’t seem open. 

If someone wants to stay within their paradigm, they will. 

[Ibn Sina]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Several people have been trying to reach out to you in this thread, yet you don’t seem open

What? Many people did reach out and I have replied to each and every one of them. What are you trying to say?

I have understood every person here what they said to me, just not agreed with them. And they also haven't given sound reasons for me to agree with them. They haven't refuted my assertions. I have understood but not agreed.

Also I hope you are not conflating- 'understanding'green and'practicing'green.

While you on the other hand, have not even UNDERSTOOD and just making judgments about me.

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If someone wants to stay within their paradigm, they will.

You can believe whatever  you want but I am not trying to stick to any paradigms. I am here to learn. Period. Not to talk and change people, but to learn. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

35 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

What? Many people did reach out and I have replied to each and every one of them. What are you trying to say?

It’s not a lack of response, it is the nature of the response.

If I have a perspective I am attached to and I want to protect it, I will get into a defensive posture. I will want to debate. I will want others to prove I am wrong. I will want others to understand me. There will be an energy of conflict. An energy of who is right and who is wrong. This orientation will keep me in a contracted mindset and hinder my development. 

This is a very different orientation than when I am open and curious about the perspective of others. Here, I genuinely want to learn about their experience and pov. Yet this isn’t just in theory, it is also in direct experience. In the context of green, this means letting go of my own male-centered pov and learning about other POVs. For example, I volunteered in a psychiatric hospital that was predominantly women. I learned a lot about the experience and perspectives of marginalized/ostracized/stigmatized people. I didn’t enter with the attitude of “I know all this and I’m right”. I went in with a humble, curious mindset which allowed growth.

Currently, I am serving on a diversity committee at my job. I am the only male on the committee. I am learning a lot from the womens’ experience and perspectives. When we have our meetings I’m not in a mindset that I understand everything and want them to understand me. I don’t talk over the women and “mansplain”. I don’t tell them how it is and that they need to re-listen to what I say 10 times for them to understand. When they question my POV, I don’t respond that they are disrespecting me and judging me. 
This mindset would prevent me from learning from others’ experience and POVs. It would also create inter-personal conflict/division and would prevent me from forming meaning human connections with mutual empathy and connection. 

This gets to the heart of green development. It goes way beyond intellectual thinking and argumentation. People have been reaching out to you, yet not to debate and argue with you. . . 

[Space]

Surely this conversation should be had in a new thread, rather than this one? 

[Loving Radiance]

@Space Agreed. All comments regarding Leo's initiating comment should be moved (mine moved too or removed).

CreamCat and Ibn Sina gave their personal views and didn't seem to discredit the example for green in the videos. Wandering off is useful but not for this thread.