Value and Women

[SageModeAustin]

Value is subjective. Value doesn't exist. It's something we impose onto objective reality. Agreed, yes? Ok, so that means value is just a game we play with ourselves. Especially when it comes to women. We place higher value on a hotter woman, lower value on a fat ugly woman. This is bad. This causes me to act different, weird around higher value girls and actually care if they leave me. As to an ugly fat girl i couldn't care less. Has anyone gotten to the point where they truly don't see variance in value? Ex: Hot girl truly having the same value as an ugly girl. I mean, is this even possible?

Edited September 1, 2018 by SageModeAustin

[brugluiz]

The beauty is better felt by the way she loves herself.

[SageModeAustin]

6 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

The beauty is better felt by the way she loves herself.

we both know you don't believe this. You see a hot girl, you place her higher unconsciously and consciously.

[RabbitHole]

16 minutes ago, SageModeAustin said:

Value is subjective. Value doesn't exist. It's something we impose onto objective reality. Agreed, yes? Ok, so that means value is just a game we play with ourselves. Especially when it comes to women. We place higher value on a hotter woman, lower value on a fat ugly woman. This is bad. This causes me to act different, weird around higher value girls and actually care if they leave me. As to an ugly fat girl i couldn't care less. Has anyone gotten to the point where they truly don't see variance in value. Ex: Hot girl truly having the same value as an ugly girl. I mean is this even possible?

I think It's completely natural. I believe It's our natural animal instincts who also assist in judging/choosing partner, females are usually attracted to alpha males as they can take care of them and themselves, same males are attracted to healthy, good looking females as they could be good mothers.

Sure most of judgement comes from society image of how everyone is supposed to look an be.

But I can tell that for me atleast It's going to stay this way. Asshole! Actually, not really. The reason why I will never rate them the same is because If she's fat and ugly she has the chance to change her appearance by working eat, eating healthy, dressing well etc. There are actually not that many ugly people, there's just a lot of lazy people.

Also, why wouldn't someone have their specific requirements when choosing partner? For example, hot girl can say that she want's only super wealthy partner, "Bitch, only after money". Or more like, every second beta loser want's her, she has so many choices, why wouldn't she set requirements? Same for guys, If you are great looking guy, smart, fun with great career why would you look at someone who's even too lazy to get her diet right and to work out.

[RabbitHole]

7 minutes ago, SageModeAustin said:

we both know you don't believe this. You see a hot girl, you place her higher unconsciously and consciously.

Fact!  That guy might be poet.  

[brugluiz]

1 minute ago, SageModeAustin said:

we both know you don't believe this. You see a hot girl, you place her higher unconsciously and consciously.

Of course we're attracted to hot girls. But confident hot girls who love theirselves is much more attractive than a hot girl who has a low-consciousness paradigm and just want to bitch around.

7 minutes ago, RabbitHole said:

Fact!  That guy might be poet.  

I'm not a poet, but I like poetry. Have you ever read David Deida?

[SageModeAustin]

12 minutes ago, RabbitHole said:

I think It's completely natural. I believe It's our natural animal instincts who also assist in judging/choosing partner, females are usually attracted to alpha males as they can take care of them and themselves, same males are attracted to healthy, good looking females as they could be good mothers.

Sure most of judgement comes from society image of how everyone is supposed to look an be.

But I can tell that for me atleast It's going to stay this way. Asshole! Actually, not really. The reason why I will never rate them the same is because If she's fat and ugly she has the chance to change her appearance by working eat, eating healthy, dressing well etc. There are actually not that many ugly people, there's just a lot of lazy people.

Also, why wouldn't someone have their specific requirements when choosing partner? For example, hot girl can say that she want's only super wealthy partner, "Bitch, only after money". Or more like, every second beta loser want's her, she has so many choices, why wouldn't she set requirements? Same for guys, If you are great looking guy, smart, fun with great career why would you look at someone who's even too lazy to get her diet right and to work out.

Okay i see your point. I'm not saying our value system in our head we created is useless rather it is causing problems. We are imposing value onto objects, people, animals all of the time unconsciously. This is the reason why people are soo..what's the word? Outcome dependent, needy, not content with themselves. Imagine you are passing out candy to people that you think are attractive or 'high value.' Then afterwards you try to get this candy back. You want their validation. You want to fuck that hot girl, you want to be friends with the cool kids, because they have 'high value' which means they can give you some of that candy back, that value back. Your placing some concept of value onto them and playing it accordingly. It's some bullshit game we play with ourselves. What i want to know is if it's possible to be able to see things as truly equal beings, vs the hierarchy scale we all see the world through. 

[Echoes]

@SageModeAustin To be alive means to be relative. So of course there are endless positionalities, contexts, value games, etc. You MUST value things differently if you want to live. Survival means valuing and prefering. You value health over disease, yourself over others, having something to eat over starving and so on. Don't confuse the absolute truth with the game of survival.

[Forestluv]

@Caterpillar Very nice insight! 

Value is a relative concept. A construct of the human mind. It’s super cool to be aware of it.

In a relative world, personal values seem to be constantly arising. I ask myself, what might consciousness/presence “value”. Perhaps a sense of oneness, unity, gratitude, love and peace. 

[Emerald]

It's normal to be more attracted to more attractive people and to value them more in a romantic sense. But it's not normal to think of more attractive women as being inherently more valuable than less attractive women. That is a learned behavior based in a distorted contracted worldview. 

So, the main problem I see here is the central importance you're giving to sexual attractiveness as the SOLE or CENTRAL conveyor of worth. This is a mindset that many people struggle under because sex becomes the entire underlying context for life. And the effects of this are both subtle and pervasive. It's like a virus, where all of the thoughts in your mind all center around sex in some way shape or form. 

This will come back to bite you HARD, because you will unconsciously think that your value rests with women's opinions about your value in the sexual marketplace. So, you will be constantly feeling low in yourself, and then seeking sex with women to validate your own worth to yourself. And you will think women are doing the same thing to you as you are to them. And it will become projected onto women as a whole group, who will look like horrible demons who only exist to suck you dry and validate/invalidate you. I see this ALL the time.

So, you definitely should see that value itself is just a practical tool of the human mind. So, in the context of dating, it's fine to value people more in that sense. But if you put sex as the entire purpose and context for everything in life, then it's a given that you will come to relate everyone's sexual value to their inherent existential value. If sexuality is life, then you will only see value in those with sexual value to you. And if you don't qualify... you'll get left out of your own worldview.

 

[SageModeAustin]

Thank you everyone for your insights, extremely helpful. Especially @Emerald hit the nail on the head for me. I just realized i'm extremely brain-washed by pickup culture so this made me view sex as the central importance in my worldview. I can definitely see how this has caused a lot of suffering.

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

If sexuality is life, then you will only see value in those with sexual value to you. And if you don't qualify... you'll get left out of your own worldview.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by SageModeAustin

[Emerald]

@SageModeAustin I'm glad that it was helpful.  

[SageModeAustin]

@Emerald Just subbed to your channel btw

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, SageModeAustin said:

@Emerald Just subbed to your channel btw

Thanks!

[Haumea2018]

Quote

We place higher value on a hotter woman, lower value on a fat ugly woman. This is bad. This causes me to act different, weird around higher value girls and actually care if they leave me.

Not exactly.

It isn't differential valuing that causes it.  It is your craving to possess that causes it.

As long as you have senses and a body, you are going to make differential value judgments, enlightenment or not.

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Leo Gura]

@SageModeAustin You should draw a distinction between inherent objective value vs having personal preferences.

Absolutely-speaking, everything has equal value.

Relatively-speaking, some things have more survival value to you than other things. Value is a relative notion. A thing has instrumental value to you precisely because it helps the ego survive.

You can be conscious that all human beings have equal Absolute value, but you can still be selective about who you hang out with. For example, even though a murder has the same Absolute value as a non-murder, it would be foolish and even dangerous to make friends with a bunch of murders.

The mistake people make is that they then take the extra step of demonizing murders and denying that they have equal Absolute value.

So, you can be very selective about who you choose to sleep with, but it would be a mistake to demonize and judge those women who you don't want to sleep with. Just be honest and admit to yourself, "I don't want to sleep with that person. But this does not diminish that person in any way. They can still be a good person even though I don't find them sexually attractive."

The mistake that guys like you make is that they think like this: "That women is ugly to me, therefore she is a low, worthless human being." This is a narcissistic evaluation. You are saying that just because a person doesn't fit your survival agenda that they are somehow inherently flawed or lower. When the truth is, she just doesn't fit your survival agenda.

Also realize that when you call anything in reality "ugly" you are actually disowning that aspect of reality, of yourself. Because the truth is, that ugly thing you hate is actually, literally, metaphysically, your very self. So you are placing yourself in an adversarial relationship with reality, with yourself! Which is the very definition of neurosis.

When you call a thing "ugly" you are failing to become conscious of its inherent beauty. The beauty is there no matter what. But you are failing to see it because you are being too self-centered.

It is possible to live in a non-judgmental way.

The irony of chasing hot girls is that the karma of it always comes back to bite you in the ass and make you suffer. Just by thinking, "Oooooo... look at this hot girl, so much better than that ugly fat girl" you are causing your own misery without realizing it. When you lose that hot girl, it will hurt all the more.

I'm not saying you should sleep with girls you aren't attracted to. But you might want to reconsider the way you objectify women and use them to gratify your most base, most low consciousness desires in a purely materialistic fashion. Maybe rather than basing your attraction purely on looks, you give more weight to her personality and her level of consciousness, and you focus more on how you can give her love rather than how she can please you.

The only reason a hot girl has value to you is because you crave her. And yes, it is possible to let go of craving. The trick is convincing your ego to do it.

[Thanatos13]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@SageModeAustin You should draw a distinction between inherent objective value vs having personal preferences.

Absolutely-speaking, everything has equal value.

Relatively-speaking, some things have more survival value to you than other things. Value is a relative notion. A thing has instrumental value to you precisely because it helps the ego survive.

You can be conscious that all human beings have equal Absolute value, but you can still be selective about who you hang out with. For example, even though a murder has the same Absolute value as a non-murder, it would be foolish and even dangerous to make friends with a bunch of murders.

The mistake people make is that they then take the extra step of demonizing murders and denying that they have equal Absolute value.

So, you can be very selective about who you choose to sleep with, but it would be a mistake to demonize and judge those women who you don't want to sleep with. Just be honest and admit to yourself, "I don't want to sleep with that person. But this does not diminish that person in any way. They can still be a good person even though I don't find them sexually attractive."

The mistake that guys like you make is that they think like this: "That women is ugly to me, therefore she is a low, worthless human being." This is a narcissistic evaluation. You are saying that just because a person doesn't fit your survival agenda that they are somehow inherently flawed or lower. When the truth is, she just doesn't fit your survival agenda.

One cannot speak to what is absolute when all we know is relative. At best what we have is a guess. It would be honest (to me) to say that objectively nothing has value, but that is a guess too. 

That being said, there isn't anything wrong with demonizing people for being "ugly".

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

there isn't anything wrong with demonizing people for being "ugly".

It's not wrong because absolutely nothing is wrong.

But it does create suffering, and you will regret it eventually as it comes from a position of ignorance.

It is not wrong to be ignorant. But I would advise against it if you can.

[SageModeAustin]

@Thanatos13 False. There is definitely something wrong with demonizing people for being ugly. Like what leo said, "Also realize that when you call anything in reality "ugly" you are actually disowning that aspect of reality, of yourself. Because the truth is, that ugly thing you hate is actually, literally, metaphysically, your very self. So you are placing yourself in an adversarial relationship with reality, with yourself! Which is the very definition of neurosis."

[Thanatos13]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not wrong because absolutely nothing is wrong.

But it does create suffering, and you will regret it eventually as it comes from a position of ignorance.

It is not wrong to be ignorant. But I would advise against it if you can.

They call that moral nihilism. Of course that is still a guess since I cannot for certain say that absolutely nothing is wrong.