I can't see how full enlightenment not implies physical death as well

[Jack River]

Do many ghosts in here. 

18 minutes ago, Outer said:

The only way you can get enlightened is to practice.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@MarkusSweden you ever gone into fragmentation dude? Or can you identify disguised fear? People seem to start off not knowing they are always in escape. Be amazed why is considered escape. It’s crazy man. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jack River

[MarkusSweden]

@Outer I believe practise is necessary also. 

Have you blocked me, if you don't answer you have! 

Haha. I almost miss our fights. Everything is so calm between us these days.  

 

[DrewNows]

@OuterDoes someone who is truly enlightened always stay in a high vibration state? (maybe it is a universal state) 

I have had some bipolar issues and also an enlightened experience, but i dont claim or believe to be fully awake. 

 

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

Maybe I see it, maybe I'm blind to it. 

I just want to break free from my old life with old friends and family I come from. I like think my idea of "who" I am remains as long as they are in my life. I can die to that persona, but not as long as these people are around me, because they project that persona upon me. 

I feel like my "persona" is like a prison, and if I break free from that prison I no longer have any desire to be attached to them, they become just as random people. In order to keep in touch with them I need to stay in that prison if feels, you see?

 I understand you. 

 

The necessity of freedom...unburdened by  the influence of fear-reaction...

 

Ultimate freedom is NOT dependent on conditions. It’s only in freedom, (end of reactionary response), or (CHOICE), as (the chooser), that intelligent action manifests on its own. 

 

Intelligent action is born of freedom, which is unconditioned. 

 

It’s one thing separating yourself from others as a reaction born of the lack of freedom, and another thing entirely when holistic intelligence acts on its own. 

 

Any action determined by conditioned response implies contradiction right out of the gate. This conditioned response is born of fear, insecurity, psychological seeking. Any movement in this direction only perpetuates further lack of freedom. 

 

Intelligent action on the other hand implies holistic perception/insight into danger, and completely acts in steering clear of those possible dangers. This action is not reaction born of choice, but freedom without choice. 

 

If you are not influenced by fear to separate from the family, well that intelligent action will decide-act on its own, but if there is this influence of fear determining action/choosing, you will continue to depend on circumstances, conditions, or THOUGHT to come to a conclusion in what you should do. 

 

Any action influenced by the movement of self-thought will be action born of confusion and conflict. As long as this conflict is in movement, this implies division is being nourished, and intelligence is NOT.

 

Intelligent action will not operate when this conditioned movement is in motion. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

23 minutes ago, Outer said:

You spend so many words saying absolutely nothing it's fascinating.

Then someone takes the raisins out of the elephant's dump and think that it's golden, no, first it's not, and second if it is to someone it's because a broken clock is right twice a day.

Lol.

For some people who are intellectual, they maybe need this to wrap their mind around non duality  Apparently, some people here like it that way.

 

Marcus: It's time for you to take the step. Go and travel for a year in India or something (or other countries without the typical Ibiza-tourist). Just jump the fuck off of that cliff! It's damn scary but you can't blame anyone else by now <3

I would be happy to see you a year from now. 

Peace

[Jack River]

How do you know what’s being said without freedom? 

Only the free see these ghosts @Outer. 

Eveything you said in this thread shows this lack of freedom. Maybe I’m wrong, but maybe not. 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Nahm]

The suspense between the neurology model and the thought/fear/self model is exciting. 

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The suspense between the neurology model and the thought/fear/self model is exciting. 

 And there really both the same dudes. 

[DrewNows]

23 minutes ago, Outer said:

I know of one person who was treated successfully for bipolar disorder and he eliminated a lot of the self-thought or thinking he used to have. I'm suspecting there might be some bipolar disorder "teachers" on the forum  who are supposed to be on anti-psychotics, but aren't, since a lot of what they say are "gobbledygook" word-salad nonsense.

Enlightenment isn't a binary state, it is an endless process where even things like how tired you are effect how enlightened you are. It's a scale and how the scale is measured is how much self-thought is appearing in localized consciousness. As the self-thought goes away so does the localized consciousness become equal to the universal consciousness or the Brahman with the persistent understanding that "it's all one, undivided without a second".

How do you increase your wakefulness or reduce the amount of self-thought? That's what the question should be and that's where the practice comes in. Pharmacology is also a practice, but it has its risks and side-effects and I don't think most people who use a lot of pharmacological substances end up being in persistent non-duality.

Even something simple as exercise can end a lot of self-thought, both during and after.

@OuterAppreciate your understanding!

I have never been diagnosed with anything other than bipolar depression some years ago and I do not medicate. 

In the past year, my perspective of reality and the mind has changed tremendously which has created some turmoil and confusion in my livelihood. I continue to be open and seek new perspectives. Occasionally I will get caught up in my head with some concept or teaching trying to relate it to another concept or teaching. 

But increasing my wakefulness has been an ongoing daily practice for when I am not intellectualizing 

@Nahm Haha yes! 

[Haumea2018]

The only thing practice is necessary for is to see that practice is neither necessary nor sufficient.

Practice doesn't "get you to enlightenment."  Practice gets you to end of seeking.

End of seeking is when the ego gives up trying to control this process of awakening.

What "gets you to enlightenment" is everything the ego is afraid of doing (and is most likely not even aware it's afraid/rationalizes it.)

You are already The Self which is seeking its full expression, but right now the ego is in the way of it.

So when you consciously go looking for full expression, the ego says "aha! This should be easy to derail.  I'll just send it on a wild goose chase! Anything but to face what I fear.  I'll have him/her practicing for 50 years."

That's what a lot of people don't get.  Spiritual seeking isn't like learning to play the violin: put in your 10-20 years of correct technique and you're there.  That's goal-oriented thinking.  Spiritual seeking is avoidance of admitting you can already play the violin, but you're afraid to.  Because fear is so deeply ingrained you don't know it's fear.  It's just "who you are."

All defenses and crutches and projections have to be examined.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Haumea2018

[MarkusSweden]

10 minutes ago, Outer said:

It's not the neurology model. That's just one part of my understanding or philosophy.

Faceless writes worse than like 30% of the population.

While Aldous Huxley writes better than 99.999% of the population.

His book Doors of Perception speaks of my neurology model (Reducing valve for Mind-At-Large)

Speaking of Huxley, this is one of my favourite quotes of him, do you like this one as well? 

“The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. "Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does." They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.” 
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited

[Solace]

We are all identified with this imaginary "being" our thoughts are constantly referring to. But this "being" is not real at all! 

When we stay in a state of love we can most easily see this illusion for what it is. And when that happens, it feels like we are losing the sense of who we are because we see clearly that our thoughts cannot hold or contain or begin to describe the beauty and magnitude of who we actually are. We begin to see that we are permanent whereas thoughts change in every moment.

Yes we die as the one identified with thoughts, but then we are reborn as the one who knows  himself (you could even say identifies himself) as unconditional love. 

[MarkusSweden]

@Mikael89

You posted so interesting contents a while back, lately you seem to be annoyed or somewhat irritated. 

Are you ok Mikael? I think you are one of the most interesting members to follow when you are calm and collected. 

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

Speaking of Huxley, this is one of my favourite quotes of him, do you like this one as well? 

“The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. "Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does." They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.” 
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited

I looked up this Huxley dude after I seen this post. It’s crazy dude, but after reading faceless posts and going over things with him I can actually understand Huxley quotes. Like this..

“God isn't the son of Memory; He's the son of Immediate Experience. You can't worship a spirit in spirit, unless you do it now. Wallowing in the past may be good literature. As wisdom, it's hopeless. Time Regained is Paradise Lost, and Time Lost is Paradise Regained. Let the dead bury their dead. If you want to live at every moment as it presents itself, you've got to die to every other moment.”

Aldous Huxley

faceless has talked about this before? I think faceless and Huxley would have been bro’s

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Timotheus]

 

[Haumea2018]

Quote

What exactly is the fear? I would like to face the fears but I don't know what the fears are, and you guys don't tell me. Or I know one big fear, but you guys say that that is the only fear which should be listened to and taken seriously.

OK, let me be less abstract here.

Different people have different basic fears.

Since I don't know you, I don't know what your fears are.

Some people are afraid of dependence.

Some are afraid of independence.

Some people are afraid of being selfish.

Some people are afraid of being taken advantage of.

Some people are afraid of expressing anger.

Some people are afraid of seeming weak and vulnerable.

Do you get where I'm coming from?

Etc. etc. etc.

Knowing yourself matters.  

The "secret" of enlightenment is that you are going to be who "you are."

But that means ALL OF WHO YOU ARE.

Not a part. Not half, like you are right now.

That means the parts of you that are "yucky" to you right now.

When Jesus said "resist not evil" he meant it.  That's what he was talking about.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Okay.. doesn't really help

A person looking for explanation of fear is a subtle fear. Do you see it dude?

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jack River

[here-now]

4 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

Maybe I see it, maybe I'm blind to it. 

I just want to break free from my old life with old friends and family I come from. I like think my idea of "who" I am remains as long as they are in my life. I can die to that persona, but not as long as these people are around me, because they project that persona upon me. 

I feel like my "persona" is like a prison, and if I break free from that prison I no longer have any desire to be attached to them, they become just as random people. In order to keep in touch with them I need to stay in that prison if feels, you see?

Yes, I have experienced this apparent "persona prison" being around others I've grown up with or have known a long time.

But, these types of relationships are a beautiful testing ground!, as Mooji explains in this video:

[Haumea2018]

Quote

Okay.. doesn't really help.. I'm not afraid of any of the mentioned things.

What about anything I haven't mentioned?