Truly Scared of Pursuing Enlightenment (Is it worth it?)

[emind]

I have had periods in which Ive been really deep into meditation and self inquiry, and have experienced partial moments of bliss (not anywhere close to enlightenment). But I have also had two depersonalization episodes, which were horrendous to say the least. Lately Ive been a little lazy with my spiritual work, and while asking myself why I had been lagging so much, I realized that it is sheer fearfulness.

After experiencing a dark form of quasi-enlightenment (depersonalization episode) or whatever you want to call it, and feeling an emptiness in which nothing could ground me, and coming back from that experience (thankfully), the thing I was most grateful for was the fact that I had an ego with which I could navigate the world. I am literally clinging to my ego with all my strength, because the experience I had when losing it (or almost losing it) was absolute hell. 

Now with that said, there is another side of me that does crave the pursuit of true spiritual liberation, something very unlike the dark episodes I went through. I do want to start Yoga and restart meditation and self inquiry. How should I proceed with this?

[Saumaya]

If you have time, yes. If you have responsibilities, no. A serious seeker won't ask this question because they don't really have a choice.

[NoSelfSelf]

(Best thing you can do for yourself) just continue doing it the thing is just doing it until it desolves its the key those episodes shows you you are getting closer

[Vipassana]

hardcore spiritual purification work! theres lots of lessons to be learned from event or episodes like that 

[Arkandeus]

seeking too hard in any direction can be too hard, even if its enlightenment, you can be flying too close to the sun

your wings grow at their own pace, enlightenment comes on its own

you are conscious, let the seed grow naturally, in harmony, enjoy life

[Shadowraix]

That emptiness you experienced is a good equivalent to pure consciousness. The ego does not want to let go and turn finite into infinite.

You still have to navigate this world even as an enlightened one, enlightenment just gives you a recontextualization on how to do it through not only knowledge but experience.

Dissociation is scary at first, I've experienced and embraced it many times, not necessarily through meditation. Acknowledge how you feel instead of trying to interpret it as good or bad.

[Haumea2018]

The first stage of enlightenment can be pretty rough, nihilistic, even hellish for some.

So you keep going, and get past it.

[Leo Gura]

This is a one word solution to this problem: psychedelics

[pluto]

Ask yourself: Who is the one that is scared?

[zunnyman]

@emind Oh man, I feel every word you said. I just had a mini depersonalization episode just now after I thought the worst was over months ago. I know Leo is saying to do psychedelics but honestly, if meditation scares me I don’t know how I would do psychedelics. My current game plan is just doing meditation, experiencing those bliss moments, and other stuff, and when I feel the depersonalization coming, I just run from it again and again. I don’t know whats to come in the near or late future though. I feel pretty demotivated too on this path, because this shit can fuck with you. My next hope is to look into sadhguru’s programs as he says they give a very solid foundation for enlightenment work. Currently, Upa yoga is helping with immediate healing if you want to try that. I have a feeling, not sure, but doing strong practices (like paying attention to the breath or mindfulness meditation with labeling) can be too much for the ego sometimes

[Sashaj]

What is this depersonalisation thing and how does it happen?

[Nahm]

@zunnyman

Possibly, but not certainly...if you have little foundation, such as financial self sufficiency, emotionally self sustained, ‘time on the cushion’, nondual theory & understanding, etc,  then truth might be experienced with a ‘depersonalization’ lens or only “loss”.

With a foundation, solo retreats alone in nature with practices and a trip...truth is not a “gain” at all, but the “loss” factor might not be an issue at all. 

[zunnyman]

@Nahm I know you’re not certain but just seeing how theres many options to tackle this challenge is quite reassuring on this hero’s journey, Im sure even love based practices, or seeking guidance from gurus might also make this journey more smooth. 

Another point may be that those who seek hard, despite the pain and suffering do so because they have seen the amazing aspects and beauty of non-duality making them more willing to accept the costs like the dark night of the soul, depersonalization, etc. and the pain becomes a non-issue compared to the beauty 

@Sashaj In my personal experience, what I mean by depersonalization is the sense, for a specific time period, that I am not located in the body, sense of self is expanding, And I see the body even, and try to get back into this egoic body and mind, but I have to move around and distract myself to get back into the body and mind. Its one thing to feel like boundaries are sort of collapsing, and that can feel blissful, but i see a depersonalization episode as more nihilistic sometimes, and accompanied with a lot of fear and screaming monkey mind, etc.  

[Nahm]

@zunnyman Yep. 

[cetus]

@emind

 

[emind]

@Leo Gura I am extremely surprised that you would suggest that in all honesty. I feel like that could really fuck me up, the massive benefits that COULD come along with them notwithstanding. 

[emind]

@zunnyman Exactly! I was surprised as well that Leo would suggest that, trying psychedellics is one of the things which I am most interested in, but also one of the things I fear the most. I havent tried Yoga yet but Leo's recommended book is shipping to me atm so I will probably start in the next few weeks. Is the type of Yoga you recommended in it? I feel like meditation and presence can provide you with so much bliss and so many beautiful moments, but the bad ones make me reconsider it. Although, in the end, I tend to think that the suffering that comes along with having a strong ego (or any ego at all) outweighs any potential difficulties I might have in my spiritual journey. I guess, what I mean is, do I really have a choice? I could not live with myself knowing that there is an ultimate spiritual truth out there to be found by embarking on a lifelong journey, and that I am hesitating to follow it. I just couldnt.

[emind]

@zunnyman I think you put it quite succinctly, it is a trepidatious loss of boundaries, nothing like the blissful experiences described by masters. I even remember, the last time I had it, it was on new years eve, I was at a friend's house speaking with his family in the kitchen. There was one specific family member who was speaking directly to me, and everything was going normal, when suddenly I felt like she was speaking to no one, like she obviously continued to utter words but it was like they were not landing anywhere, there was no locus. I thereafter started panicking but was able to manage it to some extent and save face by trying to act normal, but there was nothing normal about this experience. Oh and one other thing, whenever I spoke with someone during the episode, I managed to give short automatic responses, but it didnt feel as if I was giving the responses, it was like I had long ago exited my body and it had somehow been programmed to respond and navigate in the world, but in the end, it really wasnt ME.

[emind]

@Saumaya there is much truth in what you said

[RabbitHole]

25 minutes ago, emind said:

@Leo Gura I am extremely surprised that you would suggest that in all honesty. I feel like that could really fuck me up, the massive benefits that COULD come along with them notwithstanding. 

True, that's horrible advice as awakening proccess often can be nightmarish and feeling like you're going insane (as ego dissolves). Psychdelics are great teachers, but If you haven't done that before, read a lot and start low, like really low because they can and most likely will change you, there can be serious consequences, main one is struggle to adapt to shift in consciousness and implementing It in "ordinary" aka sober world. Don't just jump in them as serious dose could make you quit job/studies and even make you unable to act like decent human being. I am not trying to scare you and actually I would also suggest to do them when you are in good mental state, but educate yourself on It to kinda prepare, kinda because you can only conceptually learn what will happen, but when tripping It will feel different in a way that can't be conceptualized  Check recomended dosage and take like half, that's safe and you will get to know what It means to take psychdelic.