The phenomenon of fragmentation

[robdl]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

@DrewNows The mind is highly suggestible and this is the reason why people find what they looking to find. Repackaging a simple message common to most spiritual pursuits into much more complicated imagined 'fragments' to try and make it whole again is really just creating a perceived problem that it supposedly resolves.

I have come across 100s if not 1000s of these imagined systems of interpretation in my many years of exploring consciousness work and the most complicated ones are the most distracting ones that the ego/self fixates on. Although, there is no universal 'truth' to any of them, it's all just personal 'truth' of perceived experience.

If it works for you, then be at peace with that. Peace.

If you’re entering this discussion (or any of us) with a certain level of bias-prejudice-assumption-conclusion based on past experience/discussions, approaching this with the accumulated baggage of the past — and not with an open mind and fresh set of eyes — this exactly speaks to what @Faceless and I have been talking about. Viewing through the lens of the past — preventing understanding-communication; the past perpetuating-projecting itself.

 This is how thought-self operates. It’s a movement of the past, that measures-accepts-rejects in accordance with itself, seeking its own security-permanence.

Thought-self mechanically and reactively accepts-rejects the new, in accordance with the old, to perpetuate the old.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, robdl said:

If you’re entering this discussion with a certain level of bias-prejudice-assumption-conclusion based on past experience/discussions, approaching this with the accumulated baggage of the past — and not with an open mind and fresh set of eyes — this exactly speaks to what @Faceless and I have been talking about. Viewing through the lens of the past — preventing understanding-communication; the past perpetuating-projecting itself. 

I have experience in awareness of the present moment, an abiding presence of being... if that's a 'bias' then so be it. Presence of being manifests in my own experience with simple clarity and attention to right now, not the complicated systems of interpretation. There are very few who speak on the simple but there are very many who could cease suffering through the simple, I speak to those who still suffer and these complicated systems aren't working.

I may ask some questions when there are convoluted or contradictory explanations and interpretations. I may challenge when there are statements of authority about "Truth" or when someone uses terms in absolutes like 'must'. The reason I do is because there can be quite a bit of confusing ideology circulating around while there are people continuing to suffer, seeking relief and it's contributing to the suffering.

Although, if you want to talk about bias, why are you carrying around the bias accumulated baggage from this imagined system of interpretation viewing through the lens of this belief paradigm? On second 'thought'.... don't answer that.

Edited September 19, 2018 by SOUL

[SOUL]

Yes, indeed. Peace. @Faceless

[robdl]

19 minutes ago, SOUL said:

 

Although, if you want to talk about bias, why are you carrying around the bias accumulated baggage from this imagined system of interpretation viewing through the lens of this belief paradigm? On second 'thought'.... don't answer that.

In truth it is actually a dynamic learning. Observation of oneself day to day, observation of relationship with others day to day. 

Even attention to thought’s action-reaction in these conversations we are having right now.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

Explain Dynamic if you would @robdl

Edited September 19, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

Just now, Faceless said:

This is what I have been doing daily. Has really been freeing. When you say dynamic learning you meen no block from the past meeting right now righ dude?

That’s right - dynamic, as contrasted to the accumulated/past.

[Faceless]

Just now, robdl said:

That’s right - dynamic, as contrasted to the accumulated/past.

Indeed, sorry about post, I am riding my bike hehe

[Faceless]

When psychological time is seen through, there is no more meeting the now, (as in relationship with nature, ourselves, others), with that of the past(thought), being static. 

There then is a dynamic learning/observing/attention, which meets all the now without that burden. 

If we meet the now influenced by the past(the image), it shows in our actions. 

We will not be able to learn, attend, and communicate with others. We will be unable to be in relationship with others, and will always resist the uncertainty of the continuous changing of now. 

[robdl]

If there’s inattention, there can be the experience of a psychological self-entity that wants to protect and attack. 

If there’s attention, then what essentially was resistance-fear can drop away. 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

If there’s inattention, there can be the experience of a psychological self-entity that wants to protect and attack. 

 

Indeed. Psychological problems only arise when there is inattention. 

It’s only in inattention that there is fear, defenseivness, conflict, and so on. 

Action speaks for itself. It’s quite obvious when there is no attention to movement. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Faceless

[SOUL]

16 minutes ago, robdl said:

In truth it is actually a dynamic learning. Observation of oneself day to day, observation of relationship with others day to day. 

Even attention to thought’s action-reaction in these conversations we are having right now.

This system of interpretation it the very antithesis of dynamic, it's quite codified into a rather static method of understanding. Words mean specifically certain things and the ideas conform to presupposed conditions. All of this meticulously compared with other's experiences here and it has organized interpretations.

This is a rigid system, not dynamic at all.... it may be an exercise of rigidity in the present moment but for it to be a dynamic exercise the variables wouldn't be static as well as it would account for the perspective of individual experience.

[Faceless]

This is a daily, all day attention, observation, awareness. An effortless attention/awareness without the burden of the chooser. 

[Faceless]

We are not talking about a system, technique, theory, concept, that is to be confirmed too. 

We have said this many times. As all that implies conformity, static, rigidity. 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This is a daily, all day attention, observation, awareness. An effortless attention/awareness without the burden of the chooser. 

That’s right - this is the dynamic aspect.  And the crux of what we’re pointing to.

The communication of it, which can appear as rigid-static because of language-concepts, should not be mistaken for the actual (non-)doing of it.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl

[SOUL]

You can say it's not but there are more than two dozen pages of words that prove otherwise.

[Faceless]

And as all that implies psychological time-fragmentation. 

[Faceless]

Just because we are posting in a thread about this process of divided action-fragmentation doesn’t mean it’s meant to be conformed too. I don’t understand what’s so difficult about that to understand.  

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

The communication of it, which can appear as rigid-static because of language-concepts, should not be mistaken for the actual (non-)doing of it.

Indeed. The thought/self is very complicated. As is the communication of this phenomenon in the form of words. But the approach that is implicit in this communication is as simple as simple can be. 

We are meeting something very complex/complicated (the self), quite simply. 

[SOUL]

It is easy to understand, it's contradictory and convoluted. Point to someone else and say 'you aren't paying attention' yet be unaware of one's own inattentiveness. Oh....and be authoritative while doing it using words like must, can't, never or always. Hah

Edited September 19, 2018 by SOUL

[robdl]

13 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Just because we are posting in a thread about this process of divided action-fragmentation doesn’t mean it’s meant to be conformed too. I don’t understand what’s so difficult about that to understand.  

Right. To use an analogy - if you write about the process of riding a bike and how it works, it’s not something that’s meant to just be committed to the reader’s memory, to be believed, taken as a system of knowledge. It’s just putting into words the direct (non-verbal/non-intellectual) thing that is being pointed to; that is to be ultimately figured out by oneself.

Edited September 19, 2018 by robdl