The phenomenon of fragmentation

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Yes, I see that... I just finished meditating. My mind was constantly trying to do something. "This is boring". "I want to sit that way", "I want to see the clock", "How long have I been meditating?" "This is too long, I am bored"...

 

and everytime I just stayed from the awareness perspective. I am aware of a thought who "thinks" this is boring... and I could finish meditating denying everything that tried to identify me with the "I" thought.

 

It was hard, when you see it from the "outside" it seems simple, but it is a war.

I understand 

“The thinker” and its trickery

[abrakamowse]

Just now, Faceless said:

I understand 

“The thinker” and its trickery

Fear plays a big factor , you are right @Faceless

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Fear plays a big factor , 

Indeed..

Fear always striving to evade its own movement.

There is only fear/conflict when there is this movement of psychological time/fragmentation. 

Very very subtle isn’t it.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Ingit said:

internally know everything that awareness is to key to undertsmad illusion,

To me it seems reasonable to understand all the subtleties of self deception and how these illusions manifest under our radar. 

Can there be an awareness to that which we don’t even know could be lurking in the shadows?

But its also fine if you want to stick with your meditation practice. Give that a try. When you’re ready maybe later you can give this more attention. 

1 hour ago, Ingit said:

I always think that Maybe meditating daily will free me from everything and make my life enjoyable.

Find out for yourself friend. If not, move on. No big deal. It’s wise to always understand what we are doing though. Keep aware of being unaware for now.

It’s not about thinking, “I am not aware but I should be”. That only leads to conflict.

Just pay attention to your inattention. Simple

And remember, beware of psychological authority. Freedom is never given to you by another. Just confuses us more, and nourishes conflict/fear. As long as there is conflict/fear, always follows illusion/self deception. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Faceless

[who chit]

30 minutes ago, Faceless said:

  just pay attention to your inattention. Simple

Just drop in to see what condition your condition is in . 
 

 

[now is forever]

31 minutes ago, Faceless said:

conflict/fear

if the cause is the cause. conflictfear. but conflict can also be because there is no fear conflict/freedom.

[abrakamowse]

I find meditation useful if you do it to slow thought, and to recognize the difference between thought and direct experience. 

 

Meditation calms the mind and help to notice those subtleties that otherwise would be unnoticed. 

It is needed also self inquiry into the nature of reality. 

[Faceless]

29 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

 

I find meditation useful if you do it to slow thought, and to recognize the difference between thought and direct experience. 

 

I understand.. there can be a slowing/quieting of thought.

The question is can this movement of thought come to a steady silence.. Problems may lie In the premeditated aspect, if that’s the case. Thought can trick itself into thinking it is not thought in movement. This premeditated movement may seem to quiet itself, but can actually nourish this movement of fragmentation. It’s quite interesting when its seen all holistically. That’s why I felt like speaking about fragmentation/thought. 

 

33 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Meditation calms the mind and help to notice those subtleties that otherwise would be unnoticed. 

 We find that when there is premeditation involved then we implicitly set a limit that cannot be surpassed. If premeditated, it’s a form of control (fragmentation), and therefore will be a temporary quietness. Quietness won’t be the constant, but will come in the interval of that moment during meditation and perhaps for a small period of time afterwards. This is will have to repeated again and again however. 

You can observe this as well..watch it. It’s quite interesting. 

 

 

[MiracleMan]

21 hours ago, Faceless said:

Pleasure and pain are really one and the same

 

To go into it very simply and in a way that all can understand...

We get pleasure out of attacking one another. This pleasure is sustained by our acting in accordance to an image that gratifies, validates, self affirms, our own self image.  Action born of fear/seeking psychological security in thought. 

We attack one another to reinforce and strengthen our own self image. We invent the image and hide behind that image to escape the reality of fear. This self image being a defensive measure to ensure a sense of psychological security/permanence. 

Again, we construct and pursue the abstraction(image), in which we hide from the fact of fear. We then seek psychological security in that image to escape the fact/reality. 

The image serves as a safeguard that we can always resort to if we are feeling insecure, uncertain, and insignificant. We get pleasure by validating that image and we do so in many ways. Attacking others verbally  is one way..(antagonism, a subtle form of violence), will seemingly build up our self image, but because we depend on that means of validation (inventing the image to seek refuge in), we are implicitly creating an attachment/dependence on that image in which we then feel compelled to protect..kinda like the expressions; “you play, you pay” or “what goes up, must come down”.

This breeds fear because we then feel obligated to everlastingly feed that image in order to maintain a sense of order/safety. This is a exhausting way to live indeed. 

 

Do we see that this cannot be sustained, and that it is foolish to see-understand the truth of this, yet still continue to do so? 

 

The more we try and make something that is fundamentally impermanent permanent, the more we further perpetuate the inevitable outcome of psychological insecurity as a result. 

If I create an image to escape fear and pursue that image(pleasure), I also now have an image that can be opposed, which will bring pain and further fear. To seek psychological security in pleasure is to invite the inevitability of pain-suffering.

If I build an image to protect myself against feeling insecure, now I have an image that needs to be protected, so I am always in defense of that image. Therefore I am always on guard, quick to protect that self image, by any means necessary. 

We invent the image to protect “ourselves”, but do we see that by constructing that image we have built something impermanent that can be destroyed. 

This self image may provide pleasure, but pain is always waiting around the corner as a result. 

 

Can we see the significance in not forming an image? 

 

After all isn’t is obvious...

 

NO IMAGE NO PAIN, NO PAIN, NO SUFFERING, NO SUFFERING, NO NEED TO SEEK PLEASURE IN THOUGHT(THE IMAGE). 

 

NO IMAGE AND WE ARE THEN PSYCHOLOGICALLY INDESTRUCTIBLE. 

 

Do we see that to seek psychological security in the image actually nourishes this divisive process of fragmentation? 

 

 

 

 

This is a really strange coincidence @Faceless.  You mentioned in an earlier post that you would speak about pleasure, and my thought was "he should talk about attack as well!" and sure enough you went right into it!  Cool stuff dude.

"22.VI.12. If you were one with God and recognized this oneness, you would know His power is yours.

2 But you will not remember this while you believe attack of any kind means anything.

3 It is unjustified in any form, because it has no meaning.

4 The only way it could be justified is if you and your brother were separate from the other, and all were separate from your Creator.

5 For only then would it be possible to attack a part of the creation without the whole, the Son without the Father; and to attack another without yourself, or hurt yourself without the other feeling pain.

6 And this belief you want.

7 Yet wherein lies its value, except in the desire to attack in safety?

8 Attack is neither safe nor dangerous.

9 It is impossible.

10 And this is so because the universe is one.

11 You would not choose attack on its reality if it were not essential to attack to see it separated from its maker.

12 And thus it seems as if love could attack and become fearful."

 

Thank you guys so much, I can't begin to express my gratitude. ❤

Edited September 18, 2018 by MiracleMan
Added quotation marks for the ACIM passage.

[Ingit]

I hate when Thought creates a think of its movement as real and makes into believe that it is not thought but real experience... Im gone..... ! ?

[SOUL]

17 hours ago, Faceless said:

We get pleasure out of attacking one another.

We?

18 hours ago, Faceless said:

We attack one another to reinforce and strengthen our own self image.

'We' can also support one another to reinforce just like you and your 'movement' of people here are agreeing with each other's ideas.

18 hours ago, Faceless said:

Again, we construct and pursue the abstraction(image), in which we hide from the fact of fear. We then seek psychological security in that image to escape the fact/reality. 

You mean like this system of abstraction, fragmentation and movement you have constructed and seek psychological security in that image to escape reality? Yes, it seems so.

18 hours ago, Faceless said:

NO IMAGE NO PAIN, NO PAIN, NO SUFFERING, NO SUFFERING, NO NEED TO SEEK PLEASURE IN THOUGHT(THE IMAGE).

NO IMAGE AND WE ARE THEN PSYCHOLOGICALLY INDESTRUCTIBLE.

Do we see that to seek psychological security in the image actually nourishes this divisive process of fragmentation? 

So then according to the abstraction you construct you 'image-ine' that the only way you can experience no suffering is this image of 'no image' you've seek psychological security in but this image actually nourishes the fragmentation which means you are still suffering and aren't "psychologically indestructible". *whew*

19 hours ago, Faceless said:

Pleasure and pain are really one and the same

The same? Another 'image' construct? Does that mean you imagine truth and false are the same, too?

This isn't me imagining it to be, it's your 'image' I reference and just to be clear I'm not 'attacking' you, I'm just acknowledging what you say about it.

[Faceless]

@MiracleMan it’s all you my friend??

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

We?

?

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

'We' can also support one another to reinforce just like you and your 'movement' of people here are agreeing with each other's ideas.

We are simply referring to the image itself. As I said before ‘we’ seek pleasure in the image, and that pleasure is cultivated in many different ways. We are speaking about the species in general.

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

You mean like this system of abstraction, fragmentation and movement you have constructed and seek psychological security in that image to escape reality? Yes, it seems so.

Did I construct this reality of fragmentation or did this process in movement construct the me(image)? 

 

We are only using thought (the image), to explain the phenomenon. Do you see?

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

So then according to the abstraction you construct you 'image-ine' that the only way you can experience no suffering is this image of 'no image' you've seek psychological security in but this image actually nourishes the fragmentation which means you are still suffering and aren't "psychologically indestructible". *whew*

I’m sorry soul, there seems to be some confusion taking place. I urge you to maybe start over and come into it with suspended judgement. But do it on your own, to me it was easier to go it alone without any influence. 

Or maybe just hang in there and it might click soon or a later. I feel it will be well worth it indeed. We just got to go into it without any stake in the matter. 

 

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

The same? Another 'image' construct?

Pleasure/pain and the image are directly related indeed...Pleasure/pain is a movement/action and result of the conformity and attachment to an image. 

The image may seemingly be different, but all images are the same in structure. The past image is one and the same as the future image. 

 

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

Does that mean you imagine truth and false are the same, too?

This is why I really urge you to go into this for yourself. These responses are indicating some confusion. 

In regard to your truth-false question; as long as this (truth and false) are the product of the image, then yes. They would then ultimately be the same in nature/structure. 

In the clinging/identification with an image, then this “truth/false”, is then one and the same. And both pleasure and pain are the result of this same movement of projection as well.

You got it, Friend?

 

And to top it off..

The image being (born of the past which inevitably projects itself in time). 

This implies a self fulfilling prophecy, so to speak...The means; as in the accumulation and response of past knowledge, (thought-images), in which “the i”,(image), conforms too. This happens as well with routines and systems, in which all that projects the destination, which it then calls truth..

So this truth is merely a projection carried over from the past onto the present..Therefore in this instance, truth is our own invention influenced (by an Image), therefore not truth. All very subtle indeed. Very interesting though. 

 

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

This isn't me imagining it to be, it's your 'image' I reference and just to be clear I'm not 'attacking' you, I'm just acknowledging what you say about it.

I’m not accusing ‘you’ of attack buddy. I am speaking generally in regards to human beings as a whole...thought/self as a whole. 

And again..If one feels they must attack, attack away..I’m not in any opposition with anyone. That’s an illusion and waste of precious life my friend.

I’m not caught in that conjuring trick, but express compassion for who ever is

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Just to restate what we are intending to communicate to one another here...

 

This thread is not direcrted towards TRUTH. It is showing the rather common reality of illusion and its consequences that manifest in the consciousness of human experience. ‘Experiences’ may very from “individual” to individual, but experience/thought(self), in nature/structure is basically the same. To contest this would be quite silly now wouldn’t it. Well, at least to those who actually see how the trick works that is..

 

The conditioned consciousness is the same across the board. It’s not my consciousness, or your consciousness, but simply consciousness. Fear, jealousy, anger, and all other aspects that imply psychological becoming, all part of this movement/content of the conditioned consciousness, “the i”. 

 

This post is about consciousness as it is observed as the self/thought-experience. This thread talking about the abstraction of  “enlightenment” or TRUTH..We are looking at  understanding the reality of illusion through understanding-observation of the whole of movement of thought as one unitary movement in time. This reality is inherent within the structure of thought.

 

What is discussed here in this fragmentation thread is not a mirroring in accordance to a few of our own personal individual experiences or perspectives, but can be found within the field of thought-experience itself. The only thing is this reality is resisted-evaded. Whether or not this reality is observed depends on oneself.

 

The reason these arguments arise is because of the “persona” enters into the thread reading material through its own personalized-conditioned lens. If you notice throughout the thread you will see how ‘we’ posters will tend to throw the thread off course in various directions. This is an indication that one is attached/identified with the content they have accumulated over time(projection of the old-the projection of i). 

 

The psychological knowledge that one has accumulated is depended upon/attached too, and that accumulation is followed by a response(thought). This response of thinking, which is influenced by that accumulation meets what is written in the thread. “The i”, (image), is then meeting the communication. Which means right out of the gate there is opposition to the necessity of coming together..That image is then in opposition to anything unfamiliar, in which that image out of defense rejects-denies. The image is bound by its selective-bias nature. This can be observed directly. 

 

The image “I”, implicitly sets boundaries that it will not go beyond, therefore communication has conditions, which means there can be no communication. 

 

To enter into a thread with an image is simply fear/resistance in movement. As long as there is this image in which the i, (that same image) clings too, there will always be this defensiveness, argumentation, personal attack, unwillingness to commune with one another. 

 

Do we see that there has to be an actual intent of walking together as if we were all together in this, and isn’t it self evident that we are? 

 

Do we see that to enter into the conversation/discussion with an image is to enter in with our ears covered, eyes closed, and with a motive that actually only nourishes inattention? 

 

This me vs you has had its day. Wouldn’t you agree it is quite childish and rather a waste of precious life? 

 

As long as this image continues to divided-fragment, life losses its significance.

 

Can ‘we’ see this? 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Faceless

[SOUL]

22 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Do you see?

I see clearly that you identify with the image you construct so completely you think everyone is subject to it and yet you fail to see how you are psychologically bound by it.

32 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This is why I really urge you to go into this for yourself.

There is nothing for me to go into, it's your imagination.... you have quite an imagination.

I appreciate the invitation to go into it but there's no need for any of those images cluttering awareness.

If the point of all this imagery is to cease self caused suffering then I already experience it without using your imaginings.

 

[DrewNows]

@SOULIn my perspective, Faceless is using this communication technique to help bring about awareness/understanding and self inquiry to those who still create fragmentation.

I relish reading the deep insights as they do ring true. Separation creates suffering and a conditioned perspective.

Bringing awareness to all these patterns ends them, and gives a holistic understanding and freedom from the conditioned mind 

[Faceless]

@SOUL ok, understand 

Guess that’s it then, friend??

Edited September 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

Bringing awareness to all these patterns ends them

??Indeed

[SOUL]

@DrewNows The mind is highly suggestible and this is the reason why people find what they looking to find. Repackaging a simple message common to most spiritual pursuits into much more complicated imagined 'fragments' to try and make it whole again is really just creating a perceived problem that it supposedly resolves.

I have come across 100s if not 1000s of these imagined systems of interpretation in my many years of exploring consciousness work and the most complicated ones are the most distracting ones that the ego/self fixates on. Although, there is no universal 'truth' to any of them, it's all just personal 'truth' of perceived experience.

If it works for you, then be at peace with that. Peace.

[DrewNows]

@SOULThanks! I can understand what you mean. All of these systems of interpretations are relative truths which are uniquely personally concocted and have no merit to be held as conceptual belief/truth alone. I suppose you critique his perspective. In reality he is you. 

When i first read some of Faceless posts I could not make sense of them, but they intrigued me. I admit to having some attachments to them as I saw some relative truth and wanted to understand what was being said. This may have created some confusion and delusions relating to these concepts but they have inevitably helped me inquire from my own life experience, guiding me to my own truth. 

Side note: Always enjoy reading your perspective/posts on here