The phenomenon of fragmentation

[Barry J]

Haha guys this thread is good. I think faceless has the right idea. There is no point spoon feeding this stuff, surely you realise this? It can’t be grasped intellectually so may as well take folks on ride. Sometimes we need to go on the ride to realise there is no ride

[Barry J]

5 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Sometimes I think there's just one argument that happens and the function is to facilitate community and participation.  The argument never changes though.  It's the same one over and over.  But without argument, what would bring us all together?  It's kind of a different way to look at argument.  You gotta have a reason to wanna say something, right?

Yes we are all just playing in Maya right? 

[Faceless]

9 hours ago, Anna1 said:

 However, if one's mind is too dull or too agitated, then one can not look at thought or observe it, in movement.

 

 

Indeed..agitation & dullness an indication of this mechanical process of psychological time in movement. 

A mind burdened by fear only sees what satisfies its own personal needs to maintain psychological security/certainty-permanence.  Observation is then selective-bias, therefore not observation. The mind is then only concerned with itself, not the observation of the fact. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Barry J]

@Mikael89  what do you have to offer then? How has your pure moral compass helped you? 

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Apparently Faceless is a liar too, I remember I read a post by some of the moderators where the moderator said something about that Faceless have said that he has read many books since young age, but has now changed it to "I have never read any books", so one of those statements is a lie. 

I couldn't find the post.

 contradictory

[now is forever]

fear is if we move from A to B without knowing about C,D,E,F,G... 

false control is moving from A to B without considering C,D,E...

false control is also moving from A to B without acknowledging the possibility of interdependency and a possibility of ....X,Y,Z.

control over fear is giving up the ambition to control A,B,C,D...X,Y,Z in the moment while still being aware of it.

 

[Faceless]

5 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Enlightened teachers:

"Happiness is simply the knowing of our own Being – the natural, effortless and innate condition of our Self, when it is no longer pulled into an imaginary past or projected into an imaginary future by resistance and seeking."

"The separate, inside self is like a middleman, dividing our essential Being of ever-present, unlimited Awareness from all experience. This division places us in a relationship of conflict, always seeking to hold onto, resist or change the current situation, never letting it be the one thing it always is – just what it is. Without the middleman, the relationship between ourself and all experience is one of natural, effortless intimacy. This intimacy is the experience of love in relation to people and animals, happiness in relation to situations, and beauty in relation to objects."

"We normally think that to be a separate self is natural and effortless, and that to be the open, empty presence of Awareness requires effort. In fact, it is the other way round: to be the open, empty presence of Awareness is natural and effortless, but to be a separate self requires a continuous and subtle effort of thinking and feeling."

"When we understand that what we deeply long for can never be found in an object, substance, activity, relationship or state, our longing naturally and effortlessly loses its direction and dynamism, flows back to its source, and is revealed as the happiness for which we were in search."

- Rupert Spira

 

"When Zen masters say ‘effortlessness’ they are referring to the state when your enlightenment is well rooted. Now there is no need of any effort; now you can be relaxed and at ease, it will grow on its own accord. It will bring much foliage, and many flowers, and many blessings.”

- Osho

 

"Since pure awareness of nowness is real Enlightenment, 
in openness and contentment I found the Truth in my heart. 
By simply relaxing in this uncontrived, open, and natural state, 
we obtain the quality of effortless freedom of whatever arises."

- Jigdral Yeshe Dorje

 

"The awakening process, once begun, develops its own momentum without effort on your part, and the truth naturally yearns to awaken itself through you."

 - Stephan Bodian

Indeed no effort. 

But what is effort and what is not effort? Do we know the difference? 

[Faceless]

4 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Apparently Faceless is a liar too, I remember I read a post by some of the moderators where the moderator said something about that Faceless have said that he has read many books since young age, but has now changed it to "I have never read any books", so one of those statements is a lie. 

I couldn't find the post.

 that’s because there never was a post like that. I am not a reader. I have read 0 books at all in my entire life. Thank heavens

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

Energy= effort.

You might want to investigate that more friend. It’s important indeed. 

 

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

So you said that being enlightened constantly requires a huge amount of effort/energy/attention.

I don’t talk about being enlightened. We are constantly in change. Even if I had said I was enlightened, which I would never say, it would be closer to i have been enlightened. ?

 

As long as this pursuit of “enlightenment” is in movement, so is time/effort(the i). 

The energy effort/time(self) is very limited-finite. 

The energy of effort-volition is contradictory and therefore breeds conflict. One desire in conflict with another. This seems to give one energry, but that energy is very limited-minimal. 

When all effort-volition/time ceases to manifest, energy is limitless, infinite, boundless. Energy must be infinite. 

Effort/time as the i, implicitly sets its own limit and continuously tries to exceed that limit. 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Seeking enlightenment, seeking truth, has no meaning to those who are not FREE. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

There was/is, I'm 100% sure.

Well I guess I will have to search some more, sigh.

Nvm, I'm not going to find it. If the one who wrote the post read this then he will know what I'm talking about.

?ok 

[Faceless]

4 hours ago, Artaemis said:

I give zero fs about being some enlightened master. 

 

Indeed...as to be authoritative, or to accept authority contributes to dependence/attachment, which breeds  and nourishes FEAR, which then perpetuates more and more fragmentation within the stream of consciousness. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

It’s quite interesting isn’t it, we pursue the abstraction of “enlightenment” as if it was something we already knew. 

We invent the abstraction of what enlightenment is, and then moving away from the fact, strive towards that abstraction. 

This is done habitually, mechanically, compulsively. 

 

Can we end this mechanical pattern of pursuing our own inventions projected by thought? 

 

Can there be freedom without that time bound movement of the i? 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Faceless

[SOUL]

On 9/16/2018 at 0:42 PM, Big Guru Balls said:

@soul: "awareness is a field of hemp mingling with a rainbow pallet of wildflowers." 
  

Baha...brilliant response!

On 9/16/2018 at 1:01 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

Sometimes I think there's just one argument that happens and the function is to facilitate community and participation.  The argument never changes though.  It's the same one over and over.  But without argument, what would bring us all together?  It's kind of a different way to look at argument.  You gotta have a reason to wanna say something, right?

What I observe in community participation is often a pattern between people that is an extension of what happens within our self. We will have an experience in awakening so the self in an effort to remember and return to it will codify it as a specific set of concepts, to make it an identity, this is what it 'only' is and the 'only' way to get back to it, like a map, it's the 'true way'.

That's why there is so much comparing of notes, so to speak, in the community participation, there is a desire for confirmation from others to secure identity as a group and personally. This is done through seeking a universality in ideology because if we all have the same conceptual view of it that confirms we are 'right', that this is the 'truth'.

Then new comers to the community want to feel that they are 'right' and know the 'truth' to confirm identity so they adopt the community ideology which adds to the collective identity which also confirms personal identity. When in reality all of our experiences are very unique perspectives and the more specifics one would investigate in them the more divergence one would find in the details.

This highlights the difference between truth being the state of true, as a fact which is not the same as truth being the state of true, in being consistent to. People are confusing that their experience of 'truth' means they have the accurate facts when instead our spiritual path, the experience of 'truth', or being true, is staying steadfast and consistent to being awareness, of abiding in presence.

The facts about our experience may be different for each of us but ultimately abiding in presence is the 'universality'. Threads like this, the 'argument', are typically about trying to establish experiential 'facts' to confirm group and personal identity. I prefer to find unity in presence of being, of abiding in being aware now.

Edited September 18, 2018 by SOUL

[robdl]

 

Notice how projecting images-impressions onto faceless as him being deluded, wrong, not credible, not knowing, conceptual, etc., subtly sustains-reinforces-defends one's own self-image as being non-deluded/right/aware/knowledgable/enlightened/credible?  

One's own self-image and the image projected onto another aren't totally separate, independent phenomena; they are heavily interdependent, inter-reacting.  Self-image feeds the movement of images about others; images about others feeds the movement of self-image. Co-feeding, co-perpetuating.

The self-image will project images onto others, out of its own movement, to fortify itself. 

In relationship, one must be aware of the images projected about others are a defense-reaction out of one own's self-image, to sustain this self-image.

When you see someone going after someone else all the time, taking potshots at them, trying to take them down a notch (which faceless sees a lot of), it's always about what's going on in their own self-image/ego movement. 

The question is, can we observe this movement in ourselves?

Edited September 17, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

It's not like I'm pulling stuff out of my ass.

The beauty of what faceless is saying is that it can be observed directly for oneself.   He's not asserting spiritual authority, to trust in his credibility. You could expose him for a contradiction about some biographical detail, but what he's saying still holds 100% true and can be confirmed for yourself.

[now is forever]

4 hours ago, Faceless said:

It’s quite interesting isn’t it, we pursue the abstraction of “enlightenment” as if it was something we already knew. 

We invent the abstraction of what enlightenment is, and then moving away from the fact, strive towards that abstraction. 

This is done habitually, mechanically, compulsively. 

 

Can we end this mechanical pattern of pursuing our own inventions projected by thought? 

 

Can there be freedom without that time bound movement of the i? 

maybe if you didn’t pursue it in the first place?

maybe if you just stumble upon it?

maybe if the cause is the cause itself.

[robdl]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

You must be kidding. No I definitely cannot experience it myself.

Do "you" think that there's something for the "I" to attain-achieve-experience?  

[Faceless]

40 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

Notice how projecting images-impressions onto faceless as him being deluded, wrong, not credible, not knowing, conceptual, etc., subtly sustains-reinforces-defends one's own self-image as being non-deluded/right/aware/knowledgable/enlightened/credible?  

One's own self-image and the image projected onto another aren't totally separate, independent phenomena; they are heavily interdependent, inter-reacting.  Self-image feeds the movement of images about others; images about others feeds the movement of self-image. Co-feeding, co-perpetuating.

The self-image will project images onto others, out of its own movement, to fortify itself. 

In relationship, one must be aware of the images projected about others are a defense-reaction out of one own's self-image, to sustain this self-image.

When you see someone going after someone else all the time, taking potshots at them, trying to take them down a notch (which faceless sees a lot of), it's always about what's going on in their own self-image/ego movement. 

The question is, can we observe this movement in ourselves?

Indeed..excellently expressed about the image, friend. To be able to observe in relationship with ourselves-others is a necessity indeed. 

 

 

[robdl]

15 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

You must be kidding. No I definitely cannot experience it myself.

Is the "I" seeking-striving toward enlightenment?

Or is there passive, effortless attention toward this seeking-striving movement in thought?

Instead of wanting enlightenment, can you understand wanting-seeking? Watch its action in thought?

Edited September 17, 2018 by robdl