The phenomenon of fragmentation

[abrakamowse]

The idea of "I" basically is a copy of the true self. Because the true self is everything and nothing (can't be conceptualized) the little "I" cannot grasp it.

So it needs to create the idea of separation to try to "understand". Where does the need of understanding come from?

I was thinking that the understanding is the basis of creating an identity. But maybe I am wrong.

[Ingit]

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

The i that moves from sorrow(fact), to its idea of non-sorrow, is a movement of fear. This is where the division between the thought and the self is strengthened. Thought (moving towards the abstraction) brings about fear, and fear perpetuates this compulsive thought. 

You mean to say the negative thoughts we think which are not real implies that they are true(The FACT) ????? Sorry I didn't get it...  @Faceless

 

[Faceless]

32 minutes ago, Ingit said:

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

The i that moves from sorrow(fact), to its idea of non-sorrow, is a movement of fear. This is where the division between the thought and the self is strengthened. Thought (moving towards the abstraction) brings about fear, and fear perpetuates this compulsive thought. 

You mean to say the negative thoughts we think which are not real implies that they are true(The FACT) ????? Sorry I didn't get it...  @Faceless

 

If there is a moment of anger isn’t that a fact that is taking place, (a reality)? 

Observe now, what is a fact that is taking place? 

Do you notice this “I am this, but I should be, or I want to be some”thing” else? 

If I move for what is actually happening now to an idea-abstraction of what I want instead, isn’t that resisting the reality of what-is?

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Ingit]

@Faceless yep i can see... ! ?? dont resist anything... 

[abrakamowse]

45 minutes ago, Faceless said:

If there is a moment of anger isn’t that a fact that is taking place, (a reality)? 

Observe now, what is a fact that is taking place? 

Do you notice this “I am this, but I should be, or I want to be some”thing” else? 

If I move for what is actually happening now to an idea-abstraction of what I want instead, isn’t that resisting the reality of what-is?

If I stay with "what is"... I feel like I am doing nothing. I just stay where I am, sit and contemplate.

Jesus would say "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Edited September 15, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Ingit said:

@Faceless yep i can see... ! ?? dont resist anything... 

To resist what-is fortifies the illusion that there is an entity that resists in the first place. 

Develop a welcoming relationship with what-is. To resist that relationship with the fact is to evade any possibility of understanding this movement(mechanical compulsion). 

We never learn about the problem, because “we” perpetually evade it. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

If I stay with "what is"... I feel like I am doing nothing. I just stay where I am, sit and contemplate.

Jesus would say "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Who’s Jesus?

[abrakamowse]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Who’s Jesus?

Well, he was enlightened. He was talking as "awareness". So we have to keep being aware or being mindful.

[Faceless]

On 9/13/2018 at 9:18 AM, MiracleMan said:

Is there absolutely anything one can do?  It seems hopeless.  We can reasonably and rationally work through this, but logical understanding with the mind doesn't bring about an unveiling, it doesn't move anything out of the way.

Im not directly looking for a response friend, I just felt like writing about hope. I hope, you don’t mind if I use your quote here. I think I go into the nature of hope-hopelessness may be a great contribution to the thread...

 

Is hopeless so bad??‍♂️??

 

Is there sound reason, logic, rational thinking when one sees being hopeless as discouraging? 

Doesn’t Hope imply psychological becoming (seeking psychological security in time)?

Doesn’t hope imply that “i”, (A), will, (as in volition), “BECOME” (B) in time. Psychological movement from what-is, to what should be. 

Isn’t this a result of fragmentation? 

Isn’t this the same movement of escaping the fact to the abstraction(image)? 

Do we see that as long as Hope holds one hostage, logic is never truly logical, reason at best is unreasonable, and rational thinking actually irrational?

How rational, logical, reasonable can one be when seeking psychological security in there own movement, yet thinking that that very movement is distinct from themselves? 

How rational, logical, reasonable, can one be when thinking is limited by this divisive movement of fragmentation, which therefore makes way for divided, incomplete action? 

 

 

Here we are not looking for an answer using logic, reason, rational thinking-understanding. We are not looking to move anything out of the way, as that implies divided action-reaction by the chooser(the i that moves things)..

Here we are understanding-observing the problem as movement. In the understanding-observation of movement there is no space between “the i” and “things” (thoughts), that need to be moved. As the conflict simply ends because “the i” is seen through, and that illusion ceases to manifest in, and as, time(self). 

Logic, rational thought, reason, only good for understanding content. We are not analyzing content, as the one who analyzes is the analyzed. If that was the case we would be looking at images through an image(conditioned lens of the i). 

Here we are not looking through an image(content) at images, but we are looking at movement from this to that, A TO B. 

It seems many people do not see the significance at looking at psychological movement. To look at movement when the word, image, content of i meets the now, and distorts the reality of what-is. 

 

Some may think that being hopeless is a bad thing, but to me hopelessness is freedom. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Faceless

[now is forever]

@Faceless again, that’s so easy to say, there is different hopelessness. hopelessly trapped in prison, hopelessly trapped in a situation, hopelessly trapped in fear, hopelessly trapped in your own mindloop? 

are you not contradicting yourself?

of course there is also: hopelessly in love with the world, hopelessly in love with the hopeless...

but what makes this hopelessness different than the other one?

or even the same?

Edited September 16, 2018 by now is forever

[who chit]

Thought creates experience and the "I" that experiences that experience.
If there is the experience of feeling hopeless,thought creates both the feeling of being hopeless and the "I" that says/feels "I'm hopeless".

Not to speak for  @Faceless but my interpretation of what he's  saying, is freedom is being free/unattached from the psychological content which creates and experiences feelings of hope and/or hopelessness.
What creates the feelings of hope and/or hopelessness is psychological content. Hope is thought imagining a future in which it will no longer feel it's created feeling of hopelessness. It's psychological content seeking to escape it's own created suffering from it's interpretation of a situation,rather than accepting the fact of the moment. If the fact is "I'm stuck" there is acknowledgement and acceptance of the fact and it ends there. Thoughts of despair,and never ending hopelessness is psychological content/I thought adding suffering/unreality to the fact of  what simply is.

Hopelessly in love would be choiceless love. Love is the fact without it being a choice. It just is.

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by who chit

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, who chit said:

Hopelessly in love would be choiceless love. Love is the fact without it being a choice. It just is.

what is the difference in being choicless and not being a choice?

what is the difference in choosing to be hopelessly in love and not choosing to be hopelessly in love when you still are?

with life that is.

what for, all this speech if he wasn’t a dreamer?

pursuing a dream implies hope.

Edited September 16, 2018 by now is forever

[Nahm]

@Faceless

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgJFUW3VenY

?

❤️

??

 

 

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, who chit said:

Hope is thought imagining a future in which it will no longer feel it's created feeling of hopelessness. 

Indeed

 

[Faceless]

@Nahm

??

[Faceless]

 

 Pleasure/pain = attachment(dependence) on the image/abstraction of hope(psychological time). 

 

Hope which implies seeking pleasure in the contents of thought-time. A mechanical movement to always bring about a sense of psychological security-permanence to that which is actually impermanent-insecure. We don’t see that the invitation of pleasure is also invitation of pain.

Always mechanically escaping despair now which is the fact, and inventing the image(hope), which is the  (abstraction-content/image, “the i”, the past). 

There is suffering because I am resisting the fact and keep holding freedom as some ”thing”(thought), to be captured in time. 

The self(time), is seeking psychological in its own movement, which is thought(image-content/abstraction). 

 

The self perpetually holds freedom in the distance. 

 

“The i” seeking security in pleasure, escaping the fact of despair, resisting the fact of suffering, all being one and the same movement of fear looking to time-thought, as in psychological becoming, to end that fear. The ultimate illusion. 

 

This very movement of hope(psychological becoming), is the feeding force of that pleasure seeking/pain & despair-suffering(FEAR/FRAGMENTATION IN MOVEMENT).

Edited September 16, 2018 by Faceless

[now is forever]

@Faceless hopeless indeed!

hoplessly hopeless.

Edited September 16, 2018 by now is forever

[Ingit]

22 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

If I stay with "what is"... I feel like I am doing nothing.

@Faceless    I agree with @abrakamowse it feels like im doing nothing....... How can I stay with what is within my mind,,,,,like some wrong false stuff going in my mind,,,,,,how could I just leave as it is and believe into what is going on inside me,,,,that is like creating a false belief inside me into a true belief......! ?

[now is forever]

@Etagnwo no. he just is confusion.

or more: contradiction.

Edited September 16, 2018 by now is forever

[Faceless]

20 minutes ago, Ingit said:

it feels like im doing nothing..

How do we know when we are doing nothing, if there is no understanding and awareness of when we are doing something?

20 minutes ago, Ingit said:

How can I stay with what is within my mind,

The moment “we” ask “how can I”, or “how do I”, we have already invited this divisive movement of fragmentation(psychological time), as a means which then projects it’s own content ‘as’ time.

Therefore more of the same divisive movement; evading the fact to the abstraction. 

As long as there is this division between “the i” and mind there comes the inevitable conflict, as in movement away from the fact towards the abstraction. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Faceless