The phenomenon of fragmentation

[Jack River]

If I would have gone into all this instead of escaping by dis-identifying I would have been free 8 years ago and not fed the loop the whole time.

We are always looking for a way out dudes. An escape. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

What stunned me was that this was all of a sudden. I thought by dis-identifying over time there would be freedom but that was a trap. I see now it doesn’t depend on time at all. After a little over a month now there is quietness. Not controlled quiet either. It’s amazing. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

5 hours ago, SOUL said:

, like don't agree this is 'me' and 'mine'. Just observe without identifying and keep doing it.

 

I use to do do this. It’s a normal pattern for the mind to work or function in. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Ingit]

@Jack River  I dont want to keep tHis thing going long, i want to end it up soon,,,,,, Maybe you are right

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Ingit said:

@Jack River  I dont want to keep tHis thing going long, i want to end it up soon,,,,,, Maybe you are right

What soul suggested is a common pattern for thought to work in dude. Maybe you will just have to do the trial and error through experience path. Most people seem to go int this direction. This is how thought works. It tries through routine to find psychological freedom. One thing I see now is psychological freedom is prevented by depending on time or routine to solve our psychological problems dude. Time or routine is the same thing as thought-self. We try to use the self to end the self. Doesn’t work

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

This thread shows such traps being part of this fragmentation pattern. 

[Ingit]

@Jack River I know,,,, but how how how..... I try to observe everytime but finally gets sucked up by the pattern and deep

[Jack River]

Just now, Ingit said:

@Jack River I know,,,, but how how how..... I try to observe everytime but finally gets sucked up by the pattern and deep

The first thing I did a over a month ago was to see if I could be aware of all fear in movement. Are you aware of fear? Even the subtle fear?

[Jack River]

That’s all I did. Watch fear. All day. At first I was only aware of obvious fear. But wasn’t aware of 98% of fear movement. 

When caught in this pattern of fragmentation or division thought and fear the same. The division limits thoughts ability to work without fear. So I soon noticed that fear was always going as long as thought was. So I found myself alway reacting to fear. ALL DAY DUDE!! It was crazy. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[now is forever]

9 hours ago, Faceless said:

If the reader doesn’t see what I write as fact, and instead sees it as concepts, theory, or abstraction, in which then that reader conforms too, then we have ourselves an ego seeking psychological security in an authority. 

 

be careful of yourself. you are very close to selfdeception. what you write is neither a fact nor are you an authority. your „facts“ are indisputable, that’s a fact. there is surely some truth in your words, but you where outing yourself as a controller here. are you aware of that?

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, now is forever said:

what you write is neither a fact nor are you an authority.

What is said about fragmentation is a fact. He means it can be observed in experience. An observerable fact. And he’s not playing an authority game. That’s why he is so cool. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

43 minutes ago, Jack River said:

This is what I use to try. The problems is this is to subtly dis-identitying. The crazy thing it’s the same as identification with those thoughts and feelings. Plus even more subtly we don’t see that we have already indentified as those thoughts come up anyway. We are then just “choosing” not to identify. It’s a sneaky trick thought plays. I did this for years watching videos of gurus. But there was a big contradiction that wasnt seen. Its seen now and that is why we are talking about it now. You can always notice dudes. There will always be this reaction. Once that reaction is  not fed, it  shows in our actions. We won’t be reacting to other peopels posts as some of us do. 

 

See, that's where you distort what I said through your own conditioning. I simply suggest to observe it. It's a passive state of observation, a stillness in being present in awareness without acting or reacting to what may move in us.

"Dis-identifying" suggests a rejection which is a reaction to it, by saying dis-identify it implies and endorses an initial identification with, that's why it didn't work for you.

It isn't what I suggest, you did something as action in dis-identifying but what I suggest isn't an action, it isn't really a choosing either, it's simply observing from pure awareness.

20 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I use to do do this. It’s a normal pattern for the mind to work or function in. 

You did something other than what I speak of, your own words have proven that. What you did sure is a normal pattern for the mind and the reason why it didn't work for you. You weren't in passive observation of it, you were actively trying to sever identification by dis-identifying and you revealed the source of your own failing by this.

 

Quote

 

"Not be influenced by conflict, confusion, and contradiction that is the result of this fragmented action nourished by dualistic movement of the self-thought. 

To aid in the cessation of psychological registration, recollection, and its projection. Essential when it comes to relationship with onenself and others. Also the only way in which there can be healdessness"

 

Quote

"Since the personal "I"/self ,is a conceived thought/idea,and not a real entity, then any psychological movement of thought/fear/desire,to seek security from what is,is the very same movement of that conceived of I-thought concept, seeking security in itself,which is thought. Thus you have only a thought/idea,believed to be a real entity (the "I"/"me"),which is the accumulation of conditioned experience/time/memory ,seeking security in itself (a thought).

Realize that what is "you, is not the accumulated thoughts,ideas,concepts/beliefs,likes/dislikes,experiences (i.e.,memory/time) of the mind and/or body.

To be free, is to be free of the accumulation of the "I"thought/mind/memory/time/experience(all one). Then the unitary psychological movement of "i-me -self-/"thought/"fear" as one whole movement, will cease."

Quote

"It’s only in holistic observation that there is complete action, in which doesn’t further feed that self feeding loop of fragmentation."

Do you have the same misunderstanding of these as well?

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, SOUL said:

See, that's where you distort what I said through your own conditioning. I simply suggest to observe it. It's a passive state of observation, a stillness in being present in awareness without acting or reacting to what may move in us.

"Dis-identifying" suggests a rejection which is a reaction to it, by saying dis-identify it implies and endorses an initial identification with, that's why it didn't work for you.

 

Cool. I get that. We are understanding together then. 

I just meant we will subtly identify even when we think we are not. Telling someone to not identify will not cut it 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[now is forever]

14 minutes ago, Jack River said:

What is said about fragmentation is a fact. He means it can be observed in experience. An observerable fact. 

you are already under control. i understood that. if you would have read the conversation from the start you would understand.

but i‘m sure he is maybe misconcepted in some of his „understanding“ because it’s not a fact - if there are no facts.

sorry i meant, i understood the thing about fragmentation. i even remember talking in another thread in may about fragmentation of time, i guess he was present then. do you now understand my movement of thought?

Edited September 5, 2018 by now is forever

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, now is forever said:

you are already under control. i understood that. if you would have read the conversation from the start you would understand.

[Jack River]

@SOUL

to tell someone who doesn’t understand how thought moves not to identify with thoughts is just another illusion trap waiting to happen. That’s why I said that is dis-identification. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

50 minutes ago, Ingit said:

I know,,,, but how how how..... I try to observe everytime but finally gets sucked up by the pattern and deep

Once you recognize you finally got sucked up by it, just be that passive observation again. Or not, you could just let the sucking to continue.

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Once you recognize you finally got sucked up by it, just be that passive observation again. Or not, you could just let the sucking to continue.

Dude.. when one is moving in the fragmentation pattern there is no passive..that’s the point. If we can’t identity there is fragmentation moving then it is not noticed. And it will keep going 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

12 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I just meant we will subtly identify even when we think we are not. Telling someone to not identify will not cut it 

Why are you projecting?

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

to tell someone who doesn’t understand how thought moves not to identify with thoughts is just another illusion trap waiting to happen. That’s why I said that is dis-identification. 

So you trapped yourself by dis-identification? Then stop doing that and don't project it onto others.

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

Why are you projecting?

Projecting? Dude what I said is reasonable. Lol 

 

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

So you trapped yourself by dis-identification? Then stop doing that and don't project it onto others.

This is thought dude. You still think your thought is different. Smells like  fragmentation in here dudes.