The phenomenon of fragmentation

[who chit]

7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@who chit

thank you for the posts??

@Faceless To you as well. ?

[molosku]

All this seems like speculation/theorizing with no real application to ones awakening. This makes things seem way more complicated than they are, and I feel it enforces the compulsion to "get" something about enlightenment.

Maybe it is just the writing style that is covering a very simple truth, I dont know. I find the most profound is thing is very often the most simplest thing, that is not overlooked anymore. 

[SOUL]

Build fancy scaffolding just so it can be torn down....lol...

[Faceless]

38 minutes ago, molosku said:

All this seems like speculation/theorizing with no real application to ones awakening. This makes things seem way more complicated than they are, and I feel it enforces the compulsion to "get" something about enlightenment.

Maybe it is just the writing style that is covering a very simple truth, I dont know. I find the most profound is thing is very often the most simplest thing, that is not overlooked anymore. 

It may seem like that but the mind is very complex...It’s not content-information to be accumulated. We are not building scaffolding, (a series of conceptualizations in which one seeks security in). 

It’s in seeing-understanding the whole of thought there can be an holistic-choiceless awareness in which doesn’t perpetuate the self feeding loop of fragmentation. So there can be an awareness to positive-negative movement of the self, in which incomplete action or divisive action is not nourished. This is about embodiment. To embody holy action. Not be influenced by conflict, confusion, and contradiction that is the result of this fragmented action nourished by dualistic movement of the self-thought. 

To aid in the cessation of psychological registration, recollection, and its projection. Essential when it comes to relationship with onenself and others. Also the only way in which there can be healdessness or an awareness in which is timeless everyday, all day, if one has that leisure of course. It’s Not a temporary communion with the absolute, but an ongoing relationship with it THE HAPPENING. 

Or otherwise known as the ending of experience, or the ending of time. 

In the ending of experience is the beginning of that which is sacred, THE IMMEASURABLE. 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Faceless

[DrewNows]

@SOULMaybe you are right. "Understanding is pointless if you can't do it". 

I still enjoy the demonstration of what is being understood from their pov and am learning a great deal about what it takes

Ultimately it may not help bring full awareness but you wont see "me" thinking i am headless until I am indeed seeing clearly (holistic understanding of what is) 

much to be appreciated here ?

[molosku]

"holistic-choiceless awareness in which doesn’t perpetuate the self feeding loop of fragmentation" what a mouthfull  I'm very interested, how would you explain that to a 12 year old child? As i feel I could explain non-duality and how to self-realize to a 12 year old, granted he/she will listen and think carefully. 

Yeah I get that you are not talking out of your ass but honestly I dont have much of an idea what you are talking about here. 

Btw, how do you feel about the cult-leaderish status you are slowly but steadily achieving here, as a few posters praise you, reference to you and claim they are your diciples even? 

Edited September 5, 2018 by molosku

[Ingit]

Maybe IM trying very hard.... I am doing mediation daily 2 months now... and Im still caught up in thoughts (negative doubts) causing me feel uneasy and distressed.... Knowing the understanding still I am not getting to the bottom of the Root

[Faceless]

@molosku lol yeah these last few posts kinda ran off course, but the stuff about fragmentation can be directly observed in yourself. It’s all right here in ones experience. As is expressed in the threads tittle; The phenomenon of fragmentation. 

It can literally all be observed directly. But the conditioned eye prevents that observation. 

Any way, I appreciate your honesty and post as well. ??

Edited September 5, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

22 minutes ago, molosku said:

Btw, how do you feel about the cult-leaderish status you are slowly but steadily achieving here, as a few posters praise you, reference to you and claim they are your diciples even? 

That’s a great question, I see it as important to get across as well. I posted yesterday about it...

 

To depend psychologically on an authority is the same as the self seeking security in its own movement of thought, (experience, knowledge, memory). This is the root of psychological insecurity. 

This is to nourish the false division between the knower and that which is knows.

 

To contribute to the disorder of thought and its mechanical reaction to fragment itself off from that which it seeks security in. 

To preserve the illusion of “the self”, the “psychological entity”, as being independent from the contents of thought itself. 

To shelter-harbor unconsciously, a spot for (fear-self), to conceal and preserve its own movement of self deception. 

To promote the activity of self sabotage, disguised as an aiding remedy. 

To advocate such irresponsibility is to assist in the continuation of the conditioned consciousness. 

 

There is nothing wrong with listening-learning from one another, that is essential, but to depend psychologically on one another only strengthens the disharmony in relationship with ourselves, and one another as a result of that. 

Everything I write can be observed by the reader as a fact that takes place in oneself, depending on if they are capable of listening-seeing the truth in that fact. 

If the reader doesn’t see what I write as fact, and instead sees it as concepts, theory, or abstraction, in which then that reader conforms too, then we have ourselves an ego seeking psychological security in an authority. 

The same as the self seeking security in its own movement of thought. 

 

 

[Faceless]

The burden of psychological authority....

 

The dependence on authority inevitably nourishes fear, in which leads to antagonism-violence. 

This perpetuation of Fear = antagonism-violence. 

The guru destroys the disciple, and the disciple destroys the guru.

 

[who chit]

46 minutes ago, Ingit said:

Maybe IM trying very hard.... I am doing mediation daily 2 months now... and Im still caught up in thoughts (negative doubts) causing me feel uneasy and distressed.... Knowing the understanding still I am not getting to the bottom of the Root

What if the thoughts are just conditioning playing itself out,of which,without your involvement in them, would cease to cause uneasiness and distress?
Without those thoughts,would you still exist?
Whether there are thoughts or no thoughts,do you cease to exist? Do you cease to be you?
If you were to stop identifying with those thoughts and believing they are true,who or what would you be?
Who or what are you without those thoughts?

Edited September 5, 2018 by who chit

[SOUL]

@DrewNows I do understand it, it's just another true-false duality ideology that ascribes positive and negative to the "fragmentation/movement".

Yep, self feeding loops slapping some new words on thousands of years of spiritual mystics building models in the mind and this is just another one that is to be torn down in liberation but can the conditioned eye recognize it?

Presence of being is the awareness that transcends. Holistic is whole, not just as the unity of all as one but one expressed infinitely as all.

[Ingit]

@who chit No i will still exist... When I want to ignore them or don’t want to be with them.... i feel like a strong force telling me to review and scan your thoughts once again what if they are True?

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Ingit said:

Maybe IM trying very hard.... I am doing mediation daily 2 months now... and Im still caught up in thoughts (negative doubts) causing me feel uneasy and distressed.... Knowing the understanding still I am not getting to the bottom of the Root

View it simply.

Whether we are in meditation or going about our way in life the thoughts and feelings, urges and impulses will rise in us. Observe them without reflexively endorsing them by identifying with them and they will grow less influential in us. Stay in this observer without endorsing 'awareness' state for as continuously as you can, it will be easier to maintain in time.

Eventually the self becomes a 'quieter' presence allowing for transcending it and being at peace.

No complicated ideologies required.

[Ingit]

@SOUL I feel very attacted towards them... If I don’t look at them, I feels like IM ignoring something very very useful but they are just weird false negative doubty thoughts

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, Ingit said:

@SOUL I feel very attacted towards them... If I don’t look at them, I feels like IM ignoring something very very useful but they are just weird false negative doubty thoughts

Ok....explain to me how suggesting to 'observe without identifying with them' got translated into 'not look and ignore them' in your mind. I'm curious.

[Ingit]

@SOUL I don’t know how these words came up in my mind... But The fAct is as soon as something pops up in my mind, I will start thinking about it... If i try to face them they feel real and hurts me a lot.... I am always worried during studying and very alert ? that “Maybe I dont know at what time any crazy thought will pop up and I will be sad and worried again”

[SOUL]

@Ingit I understand, we all have things pop up in our mind from our subconscious, face them or don't face them it doesn't really matter which but sure they feel hella real and hurt. That's your state of being right now and it's rough, I get it but it doesn't have to always be that way.

The ego self will have seemingly endless energy in keeping us in that distressed state suffering but don't give it the attachment, like don't agree this is 'me' and 'mine'. Just observe without identifying and keep doing it. Sure, we have to do stuff in life to keep living but on the inside, stay observer mode.

It may take days or months or years, I don't know, everyone is different it took me years but eventually the ego self will quiet up, lose it's energy and intensity then fade away like smoke. Some might be able to shut ego self down instantaneously but that wasn't my experience, it echoed for some time.

Being at peace or joy, fulfilled, happiness, bliss, glee lol whatever you call it will happen if you allow it. It took me awhile but now it be present.

Or don't, go ahead, feed the ego self and suffer forever. I can't be it for you, you got to be it for it to be.

 

[Ingit]

@SOUL ??? I agree... When Im with my truest self IM lost I forget all the worries and fears...

[Jack River]

6 hours ago, SOUL said:

Observe them without reflexively endorsing them by identifying

This is what I use to try. The problems is this is to subtly dis-identitying. The crazy thing it’s the same as identification with those thoughts and feelings. Plus even more subtly we don’t see that we have already indentified as those thoughts come up anyway. We are then just “choosing” not to identify. It’s a sneaky trick thought plays. I did this for years watching videos of gurus. But there was a big contradiction that wasnt seen. Its seen now and that is why we are talking about it now. You can always notice dudes. There will always be this reaction. Once that reaction is  not fed, it  shows in our actions. We won’t be reacting to other peopels posts as some of us do. 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Jack River