The phenomenon of fragmentation

[Faceless]

Fragmentation... “the individual” and “society/world” 

 

 

Control implies division, the controller and the thing to be controlled; this division, as all division, brings about conflict and distortion in action and behavior in relationship. 

 

This fragmentation is the work of thought, one fragment trying to control the other parts — call this one fragment, the controller, which tries to control “apparent parts” of thought. 

This false division followed by action, (divided action), is limited action and the mischief maker.

 

The controller is the controlled. 

 

Fragmentation is the effect of seeing oneself as ultimately separate from that which is thought, felt, perceived, and so on. 

Or for the controller, “the i”, wants to control fear, but the controller is also a fragment of fear. 

Also the controller wants to control desire, but the controller is just another fragment of desire trying to control an opposing fragment of desire. 

Thought in its very nature is fragmentary and this causes confusion and sorrow, which effects the psychological field (psyche), and is reflected out into the world. 

 

Inwardly, is “the i” separate from fear? 

And outwardly, are we as “individuals” seperate from society/world? 

 

Inwardly, “the i” sets out to control fear...a fragment that sets out to to control a fragment, and so on, moving towards the abstraction. 

And that same inward movement of fragmentation is expressed outward born of this false notion that “the individual” is fundamentally seperate from the society, in which we invent abstract ideals and so on to solve fundamental problems that arise within that society. The fact is disorder, (the fact), is constantly evaded by seeking security in the abstraction that thinks will bring about order, by the intellect, in the form of analysis. But just as analysis cannot bring about order in the relationship with ourselves, so the same the application of analysis as applied on political science to bring about order in relationship between (man-woman) kind. 

This outward disorder, (corruption in society) is merely a reflection of the inner disorder of “the individual”. And vice versa....

The individual is the reflection of the society, and the society is an expression of the individual. 

 

The cause and the effect are one and the same movement of fragmentation. 

 

Political science may have its place in practical matters, but when it comes to relationship in society/the world, this application of incomplete action only causes more disorder. 

 

IS THIS PROCESS OF FRAGMENTATION THE ROOT OF THIS DISORDER, AND THE REASON FOR THIS FAILURE IN THE ATTEMPT TO APPLY POLITICAL SCIENCE AS A MEANS TO BRING ABOUT ORDER IN SOCIETY/THE WORLD?

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

Awesome.  To mostly echo what you outlined - let’s go through this slowly:

Thought creates the lens (“I”) out of its own movement, through which it views itself. 

The lens (“I”) is a product of thought — experience, memory, fear, and so on.  

This lens (“I”) is a product of thought but this lens also perpetuates, breeds more thought.  The lens is the effect of thought but also the cause of (acts upon) thought, as the lens chooses-controls-validates-rejects thought.

The lens fragment and the remaining thought fragments are co-feeding, co-reacting, co-perpetuating with one another.  

One self-feeding thought loop, fueled by its own division-fragmentation. 

Can we see how reactivity-choosing-control-effort-desire-fear, all positive-negative movements, perpetuate the lens-division, and therefore the loop?

What happens when there is awareness with no distorting lens (a lens that has been put together by thought)?

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by robdl

[SOUL]

Who is fragmented and controlled? Haha

[Jack River]

15 hours ago, Faceless said:

Fragmentation... “the individual” and “society/world” 

 

 

Control implies division, the controller and the thing to be controlled; this division, as all division, brings about conflict and distortion in action and behavior in relationship. 

 

This fragmentation is the work of thought, one fragment trying to control the other parts — call this one fragment, the controller, which tries to control “apparent parts” of thought. 

This false division followed by action, (divided action), is limited action and the mischief maker.

 

The controller is the controlled. 

 

Fragmentation is the effect of seeing oneself as ultimately separate from that which is thought, felt, perceived, and so on. 

Or for the controller, “the i”, wants to control fear, but the controller is also a fragment of fear. 

Also the controller wants to control desire, but the controller is just another fragment of desire trying to control an opposing fragment of desire. 

Thought in its very nature is fragmentary and this causes confusion and sorrow, which effects the psychological field (psyche), and is reflected out into the world. 

 

Inwardly, is “the i” separate from fear? 

And outwardly, are we as “individuals” seperate from society/world? 

 

Inwardly, “the i” sets out to control fear...a fragment that sets out to to control a fragment, and so on, moving towards the abstraction. 

And that same inward movement of fragmentation is expressed outward born of this false notion that “the individual” is fundamentally seperate from the society, in which we invent abstract ideals and so on to solve fundamental problems that arise within that society. The fact is disorder, (the fact), is constantly evaded by seeking security in the abstraction that thinks will bring about order, by the intellect, in the form of analysis. But just as analysis cannot bring about order in the relationship with ourselves, so the same the application of analysis as applied on political science to bring about order in relationship between (man-woman) kind. 

This outward disorder, (corruption in society) is merely a reflection of the inner disorder of “the individual”. And vice versa....

The individual is the reflection of the society, and the society is an expression of the individual. 

 

The cause and the effect are one and the same movement of fragmentation. 

 

Political science may have its place in practical matters, but when it comes to relationship in society/the world, this application of incomplete action only causes more disorder. 

 

IS THIS PROCESS OF FRAGMENTATION THE ROOT OF THIS DISORDER, AND THE REASON FOR THIS FAILURE IN THE ATTEMPT TO APPLY POLITICAL SCIENCE AS A MEANS TO BRING ABOUT ORDER IN SOCIETY/THE WORLD?

 

 

11 hours ago, robdl said:

Awesome.  To mostly echo what you outlined - let’s go through this slowly:

Thought creates the lens (“I”) out of its own movement, through which it views itself. 

The lens (“I”) is a product of thought — experience, memory, fear, and so on.  

This lens (“I”) is a product of thought but this lens also perpetuates, breeds more thought.  The lens is the effect of thought but also the cause of (acts upon) thought, as the lens chooses-controls-validates-rejects thought.

The lens fragment and the remaining thought fragments are co-feeding, co-reacting, co-perpetuating with one another.  

One self-feeding thought loop, fueled by its own division-fragmentation. 

Can we see how reactivity-choosing-control-effort-desire-fear, all positive-negative movements, perpetuate the lens-division, and therefore the loop?

What happens when there is awareness with no distorting lens (a lens that has been put together by thought)?

 

 

Awsome dudes! 

[Faceless]

12 hours ago, robdl said:

Awesome.  To mostly echo what you outlined - let’s go through this slowly:

Thought creates the lens (“I”) out of its own movement, through which it views itself. 

The lens (“I”) is a product of thought — experience, memory, fear, and so on.  

This lens (“I”) is a product of thought but this lens also perpetuates, breeds more thought.  The lens is the effect of thought but also the cause of (acts upon) thought, as the lens chooses-controls-validates-rejects thought.

The lens fragment and the remaining thought fragments are co-feeding, co-reacting, co-perpetuating with one another.  

One self-feeding thought loop, fueled by its own division-fragmentation. 

Can we see how reactivity-choosing-control-effort-desire-fear, all positive-negative movements, perpetuate the lens-division, and therefore the loop?

What happens when there is awareness with no distorting lens (a lens that has been put together by thought)?

 

 

Great addition to the thread, friend. 

The cause and the effect are co-dependent on one another, and the contributing factors of the sustainability of time as the i. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Faceless

[now is forever]

very interesting! would like to add this:

fragmentation is not only a problem of the i and the controller of the i. it is also a problem of the we and the controller of the we.

controll does not start by fragmentation it usually starts with defragmentation, as the world from the individual view is fragmented, through division. the controller in that sense sets together the devided perception to a defragmented reality and fills in the empty parts, what makes the individual fragmented from another perspective. 

if the controller is able to see this defragmented reality in fragments again, it is more easy to fill in the empty spots by observation, instead of preconception.

perception, thought and emotion perceived put together as one, are the defragmentation for the survival of the individual (fear/urge) but bring about fragmentation and division in the social world because we use to see them as one with the individual and not as a defragmented reality with some parts missing.

 

does that fit?

[Faceless]

9 hours ago, now is forever said:

fragmentation is not only a problem of the i and the controller of the i. it is also a problem of the we and the controller of the we.

Yes. Due to not seeing there is only control or the (positive-negative) movement in motion, and not really a division between the controller and the controlled. 

Control arises from that division not being seen through actually. 

9 hours ago, now is forever said:

the controller in that sense sets together the devided perception to a defragmented reality and fills in the empty parts

Indeed...This is a movement of projection, also a movement of divided action as the i, (time), fragmentation in movement. 

 

9 hours ago, now is forever said:

if the controller is able to see this defragmented reality in fragments again, it is more easy to fill in the empty spots by observation, instead of preconception.

 

I’m not totally the understanding the wording in his part...

But I would say there is no filling any “empty spots” when it comes to unconditioned observation. 

As I see it pre-conception and fragmentation are really one and the same movement of time as the i, (psychological time), or a projection of the i; as in the veil of (experience, knowledge, memory) that is then placed upon that “empty spot”. 

In whole undivided obsevation this empty spot would remain empty...There would be no imposition; no projection of what had been accumulated as the “chooser-knower”.  No-thing is placed upon what is already empty. No content of “things”- “the self”, (the veil THOUGHT). 

Does that seem to be similarl to the way you see it? 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

9 hours ago, now is forever said:

perception, thought and emotion perceived put together as one, are the defragmentation for the survival of the individual (fear/urge) but bring about fragmentation and division in the social world because we use to see them as one with the individual and not as a defragmented reality with some parts missing.

Divided Perception-emotion being one movement of thought as the i...all a movement of fear indeed. 

 

[Faceless]

I wouldn’t myself use the term de-fragmention because that tends to imply the opposite of fragmentation. 

Where actually, the absesne of fragmentation is the ending of this (movement of opposites), or the chooser-thinker-fear. 

Do you see what I mean? 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Faceless

[now is forever]

7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I wouldn’t myself use the term de-fragmention because that tends to imply the opposite of fragmentation. 

Where actually, the absesne of fragmentation is the ending of this (movement of opposites), or the chooser-thinker-fear. 

Do you see what I mean? 

yes, mhh but it’s at least the attempt to defragment reality - what’s left is only the „useful“ part everything „unuseful“ doesn’t even reach the controll unit.

if you talk only about fragmentation it’s difficult to understand how the ego builds up a sense of self.

Edited September 1, 2018 by now is forever

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, now is forever said:

yes, mhh but it’s at least the attempt to defragment reality - what’s left is only the „useful“ part everything „unuseful“ doesn’t even reach the controll unit.

if you talk only about fragmentation it’s difficult to understand how the ego builds up a sense of self.

I’m not quite understanding my friend.

lets start with this part 

5 minutes ago, now is forever said:

yes, mhh but it’s at least the attempt to defragment reality

Any action being positive-negative movement of self, (volition-will-desire),  will fragment. Can we agree on this point? 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Faceless

[now is forever]

@Faceless wait a minute. guess we are talking about different fragmentations. i guess there are more but i listet the ones that i thought of in this context.

• fragmentation of time
• fragmentation of senses, perception
• fragmentation and splitting of personality into i and whatever (controller, ego etc)
• fragmentation of “handlungsraum“ something like „action rooms“ or „activity zones“ in society

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by now is forever

[Faceless]

Thanks for slowing down the communication. We need to get on the same page indeed 

1 minute ago, now is forever said:

fragmentation and splitting of personality into i and whatever (controller, ego etc)

Fragmentation as in “i” try and control fear. One fragment, “me” tries to control another fragment (fear). 

This false division breeds divided action. 

We don’t see that the i and fear are really one moment of time-thought. 

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

None of this makes absolutely no sense at all.

Perhaps it may soon. 

[Forestluv]

A perspective of fragmentation I found interesting

 

[now is forever]

41 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Thanks for slowing down the communication. We need to get on the same page indeed 

Fragmentation as in “i” try and control fear. One fragment, “me” tries to control another fragment (fear). 

This false division breeds divided action. 

We don’t see that the i and fear are really one moment of time-thought. 

yes, of course... you also asked the question:

On 31.8.2018 at 7:16 AM, Faceless said:

Inwardly, is “the i” separate from fear? 

is it? when the first need ever is the urge for life, being constantly threatened by no life/death, that’s fear. so is it separate from fear or not separate?

with devided action you want to point at the phenomenon of wanting, feeling this or that and acting differently?

Edited September 1, 2018 by now is forever

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

 

I’m not totally the understanding the wording in his part...

But I would say there is no filling any “empty spots” when it comes to unconditioned observation. 

As I see it pre-conception and fragmentation are really one and the same movement of time as the i, (psychological time), or a projection of the i; as in the veil of (experience, knowledge, memory) that is then placed upon that “empty spot”. 

In whole undivided obsevation this empty spot would remain empty...There would be no imposition; no projection of what had been accumulated as the “chooser-knower”.  No-thing is placed upon what is already empty. No content of “things”- “the self”, (the veil THOUGHT). 

Does that seem to be similarl to the way you see it? 

i guess i don‘t get that entirely, i see it like this:

there is no unconditioned observation...because observation is already preconditioned - that’s what i mean with the attempt of the individual to defragment the observed. as the observed is fragmented.

initially, this was about the fragmented sensory perception - but i guess it would also fit to observation of the inner fragmentation.

Edited September 1, 2018 by now is forever

[Faceless]

34 minutes ago, now is forever said:

that’s fear. so is it separate from fear or not separate?

Why does one cling-attach to ones own bias-prejudice? 

Ones personal bais-prejudice being determined or influenced by accumulated experience, knowledge, memory,(the response of THOUGHT). 

Is it fear of uncertainty which brings about this sense of psychological insecurity? 

And is that why the self clings to its experience, knowledge, memory? To meet challenges that at as supposed threats to the self. 

Is it the movement of anticipation; Thought in movement to control and maintain a sense of physical-psychological security?

And the compulsion to use our own contents of thought to secure oneself,(self sustain)? 

So do we see that (Bias-prejudice), (experiencer, knowledge, memory), (the self), (psychological insecurity in search for security) or (psychological time), anticipation, control, fear are all one and the same movement of thought? 

And this divided movement of thought perpetuates it’s own movement by acting in accordance to the idea, belief, false notion, that the experiencer is actually seperate from that which it experiences? 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

This is simply to show that all supposed “distinct fragments” are actually one movement of thought. 

[Faceless]

29 minutes ago, now is forever said:

i guess i don‘t get that entirely, i see it like this:

there is no unconditioned observation...because observation is already preconditioned - that’s what i mean with the attempt of the individual to defragment the observed. as the observed is fragmented.

Is not the movement of the observer-observed false division, (that which breeds fragmentation), the reason for this pre-conditioned observing. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Faceless