MGTOW is the natural endgame of becoming actualized??

[kingroboto]

Ever since I've been doing meditation and mindfulness work, I started to see that I was living a life of pursuing endless series of shallow pleasures, be it food, entertainment, sex, relationship, or other forms of drugs that are found in our day to day reality. I also saw that despite all the positive changes I made in my life and the hard work I put into improving my life situation, I was ultimately still doing it to win the validation of others, more specifically the members of opposite sex. 

I never thought much of MGTOW other than that they are a group of bitter old alt-right white males and 4chan trolling virgins hating on women on the internet, but since I stumbled onto some of their materials online and looked into it at more depth, it seemed to me that they are quite compatible with some of the philosophies of being a self actualized person. 

From what I understand, the core principle of MGTOW is to become a self reliant man who doesn't need to seek the validation of a female to be happy or be bound to the need for constant sexual gratification. It's about fundamentally  rewiring the brain to undo the social programming we were subjected to from birth. 

Society tells us, "you must be in a relationship in order to be fulfilled. You must have children for your life to mean anything. Sex is great and your position in the social hierarchy is tied to how many sexual partners you've had. Having more sex means you are more alpha. Finding "love" should be your ultimate goal and you should work like a dog everyday just to have a chance at it. (And then pay for it to keep it going) if you dont aspire to this kind of existence then you are either gay or a loser."

I began to question these messages as i kept doing mindfulness practices. I was able to find brief flashes of Inner calm and peace. It was a much cleaner and more stable form of happiness than what I would get from an intimate relationship. It was enough of a clue for me to understand that everything that society told me regarding the topic was a lie, and that it is in fact possible to be happy and feel content without any external conditions to be met first. 

It makes sense to me to adopt this mode of being as a man since being indifferent and uncaring is more attractive to women anyways, and sadly social media and technology has fundamentally altered the social dynamic of men and women without anyone realizing it. 

It's not about fear or running away, rather it is about simply being content with yourself and accepting the reality that yes, all women are fundamentally deceitful and self serving, and that the usual checks and balances that were in place to keep them in line have been destroyed by introduction of feminism, birth control, tinder, and social media. Its about surrendering to reality regarding men's place in western society today.  

What's the opinion of others who has done research on this topic? Is it just toxic or is it a practical mode of being for men in 21st century? 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by kingroboto

[Emne]

I´m not MGTOW myself but I do have some knowledge about the movement. I didn't choose a life without sex and relationships with women, that life chose me. But I realized that it wasn't that bad. I have a lot of free time so I can meditate and study personal development, and I think that has made me a lot happier than most guys who actually can get laid. 

If you are interested in this kind of lifestyle I would suggest that you live more like a philosopher or a monk than like the MGTOW guys you see on the internet, because they waste way to much time being angry at women. It only makes them frustrated and unhappy. Use your short life to do something valuable instead of ranting on the internet. 

If you spend  more time alone you will become more self-reliant, which will make you care less about what other people thinks or does. Then you can date women, but on your own terms. 

                                             Good luck!  

[aurum]

@kingroboto

It's a good stepping stone for modern men. Most guys are very attached to women and validation in general, so severing that link and becoming more independent / self-reliant is a good start.

However, nothing in life is actually independent. Your muscles need your heart to pump blood and oxygen. The trees need the sun. Fish need water. So I believe you can go beyond MGTOW and still engage with women in a much more healthy, high vibration way.

[Emerald]

"It's not about fear or running away, rather it is about simply being content with yourself and accepting the reality that yes, all women are fundamentally deceitful and self serving, and that the usual checks and balances that were in place to keep them in line have been destroyed by introduction of feminism, birth control, tinder, and social media. Its about surrendering to reality regarding men's place in western society today."

Until this point, you seemed to be being pretty reasonable. And I was thinking, "Well, if he doesn't harbor resistance toward women, then perhaps severing himself from the social matrix for a while might be of help. It may help him unwire his distorted worldview about how women and men are and should be."

But the above quote shows me that your severance from the social matrix will only lead to you becoming more entrenched in your own ideas about the way reality works, and further severing yourself from your own feminine side. A person who is in resistance to an entire gender will be unable to self-actualize. There is an aspect of you that is female. And that part of yourself hates you because you hate it. And as long as you think this way, you will always suffer from a feminine terror that appears to be coming from the outside... but is actually coming from the inside. 

[Aimblack]

20 hours ago, kingroboto said:

 

It makes sense to me to adopt this mode of being as a man since being indifferent and uncaring is more attractive to women anyways, and sadly social media and technology has fundamentally altered the social dynamic of men and women without anyone realizing it. 

 

 

 This encapsulates my issue with the mgtow movement. If it truly is about being independent from women or the social pressure of being attractive to women then the above sentence isn't something that should even register on your radar. People of the mgtow movement seem so deeply influenced about women that all they talk about is how women are a bad influence. They made a whole identity that only exist in relation to women.

I sympathize with the idea of unwiring yourself from that pressure by consciously distancing yourself from women but then I'm just gonna do it and move on with my life no reason to make a big deal out of it.

[Emerald]

28 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

 This encapsulates my issue with the mgtow movement. If it truly is about being independent from women or the social pressure of being attractive to women then the above sentence isn't something that should even register on your radar. People of the mgtow movement seem so deeply influenced about women that all they talk about is how women are a bad influence. They made a whole identity that only exist in relation to women.

I sympathize with the idea of unwiring yourself from that pressure by consciously distancing yourself from women but then I'm just gonna do it and move on with my life no reason to make a big deal out of it.

The thing you're talking about is what I thought he was talking about at first, and why I thought it could be positive. 

But yeah... it seems like MGTOW guys are always trying to convince themselves that they don't live and die by the opinions of women, when it's really obvious that they do. And then they're like, "Well we just won't talk to women then." (metaphorically runs upstairs like a teenager and slams the door in hopes that a woman will care enough to talk them out of it). 

If they really wanted to sever themselves from the indoctrinations of society by distancing themselves from relationships, they would just do it and not care much what women do and don't do. They would worry about themselves during that process of exploration and shadow work... but not in relation to women.

But given that they label themselves as MGTOWs, they definitely want people (women especially) to KNOW that they're MGTOWs  and are often really obsessed with hating women. This shows that they really care a tremendous amount what women think.

And they're trying really hard to convince themselves and others (especially women) that they "really really really REALLY don't care (times infiity plus one... Men made this society and you live by THEIR rules!!!! How do you like that? huh? I bet you're pretty upset? huh?....(ten years later)... that's why you're NOTHING! NOTHING! How dare you take Feminism and oppress men with it you bitc.... (25 years later).... go ride on the cock carousel with your ugly cu.... (in the grave).... just know that I don't care not one bit if you EVER talk to me again." 

And the whole time that guys just been going over that same script in his head. So, even if he never said it, it took up so much of his brain space that he'd only ever use a fraction of his potential. He may never interact with a woman again in life... but women would still be taking up 95% of his time and be to blame for all of his problems. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Emerald

[Arkandeus]

 

I will share my own opinion on this, for me there is no man, no way, and no women

harmony in its different forms

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Aimblack]

@Emerald Exactly what I was thinking just said way more eloquently... but the saddest thing is that there is a lot of truth in what they are saying but that truth is exactly what keeps them stuck hating women.

[kingroboto]

There is really no hate, at least on my part. I am fortunate enough to not get suckered into a marriage contract.  I think that women are victims of this societal shift as well, as reflected by the increasing number of single 30+ ladies living with cats for companionship. Some folks here seems awfully defensive about the subject for some reason though? 

For the record I dont really want to identify myself with a label, I was merely observing the similarities between the philosophies. What's funny to me is that folks like @Emerald think its such a strain on our psyche to resist the temptation of females, when really it just happened naturally as I began to unplug myself from the social programming. I do appreciate the feminine quality, that is when I can still find it amongst all the landwhales exercising their empowerment as they waddle down the streets with frappy drinks clutched in their fat fingers. 

I dont want to promote hate towards women at all, I just want men to consider an alternate path that is more enriched and fulfilling than chasing after approval of others

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, kingroboto said:

What's funny to me is that folks like @Emerald think its such a strain on our psyche to resist the temptation of females, when really it just happened naturally as I began to unplug myself from the social programming. I do appreciate the feminine quality, that is when I can still find it amongst all the landwhales exercising their empowerment as they waddle down the streets with frappy drinks clutched in their fat fingers. 

I dont want to promote hate towards women at all, I just want men to consider an alternate path that is more enriched and fulfilling than chasing after approval of others

This post shows me that you have no idea what I said in my post. This post is the paragon of the very resistance to women that will keep you ever entrenched in your attachment to women and their validation. So, "unplugging" right now is literally impossible for you. You are not capable of detachment if you harbor so much hate and resistance to the Feminine that you can't even make a post without insulting women as a whole group. And it's quite clear that you don't appreciate Femininity at all... not by a long shot. In fact, you have no clue what the feminine actually is. And your resistance to the Feminine is palpable.

And your Anima will punish you at every turn for this hatred of the Feminine. Resistance to women equals resistance to self. And you will never self-actualize if you hate such a major part of yourself. You will just be stuck judging those "land whales" with their "frappy drinks" and all of that judgment will boomerang right back at you. You'll be like a dog chasing its tail. And whenever you catch your tail and bite yourself, you will think it's women who have bitten it. And it will only cause you to chase your tail faster and with more vehemence.

If you really want to detach, stop judging and let go of your delusional beliefs about yourself, women, and reality. You're stuck in a pool of acid and it's eating you alive a little bit every day. Detachment is necessary for you. But at present, you're so attached to your beliefs about women that you'd be obsessed with women even if you never spoke to a woman again.

How many times a day do you think about women in anger? Does ever a day go by that you're not bitter toward women? Probably not. How much brain space do you waste?

[kingroboto]

@Emerald you seem to enjoy constructing fiction in your head about other people's lives. Is that a feminine quality as well? If so Im rather turned off by it

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

@Emerald you seem to enjoy constructing fiction in your head about other people's lives. Is that a feminine quality as well? If so Im rather turned off by it

I don't care if you're turned off by what I say. It's not meant to be arousing... it's meant to snap you out of your worldview so that you can see the distortion that you're mired in, which is very obvious by the talking points that you're sold on and the level of bitterness behind the way you speak of women.

It's a huge epidemic actually, so there are thousands of guys who are stuck in this same prison. So, if you can look with true detachment and pay attention, you'll see a lot of people mired in the same distortion, and you will already be able to see the distortion before they are even remotely aware of it.

This is why I am already picking up on what your issue is before you even realize that you have an issue. So many men are suffering from Anima possession, and their energy gives it away by even just reading a little bit of what they've written.

Because of their Anima possession, they are over-whelmed by the Shadow Feminine qualities that the repressed Anima infuses into their personality: bitterness, passive aggressiveness, bitchiness, blaming others instead of taking personal responsibility, pettiness, lack of acceptance of reality, etc. These Shadow Feminine qualities can be found in most men who are sold on the Red Pill philosophies and worldview, despite their desire to be more masculine.

So, by your original post, it seemed as though you were interested in self-actualization. And I won't sugar-coat it for you... You will never become self-actualized if you're at war with women. The Anima will not let you. And if you don't think you're at war with women, dig a little deeper and be a little more honest. 

[kingroboto]

@Emerald lol okay lady. How much time do you spend here?

[Emerald]

38 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

@Emerald lol okay lady. How much time do you spend here?

I used to be on the forum quite a bit when Leo first opened it up a couple years back. It really helped me get more traffic to my channel. Then, I didn't go on for about a year. But in recent months, I come on a couple times a day for a few minutes a piece... maybe longer if I answer to people's questions. But not that often, honestly. Most of my posts were made like two years ago. 

But you can laugh all you want. What I'm saying is true. 

[Emne]

I think most MGTOW-guys are autistic neckbeards who are angry at women because they can`t get laid. A bit like incels, but they don't want to be honest with themselves so they say that it is voluntary. 

The reason that they so easily fall for unrealistically bad views of women is because they are bitter and haven't met many women in real life. As a loser who can`t attract girls I could easily have fallen into that trap myself, but since I at least have had contact with girls I know that the ideas that MGTOW and incels believe in are often quite far from reality. Most women aren't manipulative sociopaths just like most men aren't violent rape machines. If you actually talked some women and got to know them you would realize that there generally aren't anything wrong with them. 

[Spiral]

I would stay out of the MGTOW community but going solo and focusing on yourself is very beneficial.

[Emne]

Just now, Spiral said:

I would stay out of the MGTOW community but going solo and focusing on yourself is very beneficial.

Well said

[Emne]

1 hour ago, Feel Good said:

 

In my opinion healthy women do not find "indifferent and uncaring" attractive qualities in men. 

I think they actually find it quite attractive. I don't think many women want weak and needy guys who need constant approval. They even seem to prefer douchebags because they at least have confidence and don't really care about the opinions of other people. 

[Emne]

@Feel Good Most people aren't very healthy or developed, but I guess that it is possible to find people of both genders who are interested in healthy relationships and personal growth. 

[kingroboto]

I feel this idea of a "healthy" and well adjusted men or women is increasingly like chasing a unicorn. Generations of weak parenting compounded by internet and social media has pretty much made sure of that. At some point you have to realize that Santa Claus doesn't exist and stop playing a rigged game. I think people like Jordan Peterson and Leo are starting to undo the damage but im in no delusion that it's going to fix anything overnight, if ever. (It took me 4 yrs to discover Leo's channel, for example) 

So all that is left to do is to just focus on myself and be the best person that I can be. That's what I got out of the MGTOW philosophy. There will always be the low conscious people that use such ideology as crutch but it's not the case for myself

Edited September 2, 2018 by kingroboto