Is it worth it ?

[Lynnel]

I usually tended to avoid enlightenment all together because I didn't want my whole reality to disappear, to experience physical death so early and I've always been afraid to seeing some surnatural entities, fucking up my world entirely, spirally into an endless depression and opening pandora's box.

All the practices I've been doing have been either out of suffering or for psychological level benefits, not exactly spiritual benefits. And now I'm feeling slightly stuck. On some end if the truth exists and I'm living in a lie I don't wanna be afraid of the possibility of everything crumbling. I wanna find some sort of comfort in figuring out everything for real. But I don't feel much drastic changes in my life and like "real real" results. Just gradual changes but far from the "amazing" life I wish to live.

Thus I've been lately thinking about taking a Octavio Rettig retreat with 5-meo-dmt. I'm sure it can be an insanely amazing experience but I'm afraid I won't be able to handle physical death or fucking up myself completely and never being able to recover. There is a tension about living in a dream like state and finding comfort in ignorance but since I've already read this much, meditating and doing kriya yoga, seeing the materialistic limitations of orage, I feel like it's already over and I have to follow the path.

To some extent I'm not identified with the body-mind and me being simply consciousness witnessing the body mind doing it's thing. (like writing this).

So I'd like to ask, is it worth it ? Destroying your whole world and reality and not living in a dream anymore ? Going trough real physical death to get those realizations and insights ?

[SoonHei]

20 minutes ago, Lynnel said:

So I'd like to ask, is it worth it ? Destroying your whole world and reality and not living in a dream anymore ? Going trough real physical death to get those realizations and insights ?

i am in your same spot so i am not talking from experieince at all here lol

 

BUT

 

i do believe that yes, at the end of it, once you get it all figurered out = lasting enlightmeent state and your seeking has ended then yes, at that point, one can say IT IS WORTH IT

 

it is the journey which is difficult. no matter how difficult and mind fucking and life destorying it might be... one can only say it was worth it once the "destination" is reached.

 

but yeah, you already knew that . it is well worth it

 

the real question however is this. are you prepared for the journey?

 

if the step to get there was just simply pressing the button with no "negative consequences" then you would have done it easily 

but its the journey you and I know which is the difficult part.

the view from the top of the mount Everest is worth it. the feeling of having scaled it and all. but the path is dangerous AF

[Lynnel]

@SoonHei Usually it goes like this :

1) Enlightenment is the most amazing thing that can happen to you it's magical and there is no more suffering and like endless benefits.

2) Enlightenment is horribly painful and you have to face endless issues like loneliness until you process them fully and and become free and then like you don't care about anything anymore you do your mahasamadhi and like you suffering trough everything for no reason whatsoever. Like all those horror stories with the dark night of the soul, enlightenement fucking up your life, etc.

Depending on the people the journey itself also sounds either amazing or like hell. It's really hard to tell.

[Leo Gura]

@Lynnel Fear is illusion.

Fear not. You have hold infinite power within you.

You are Infinite!

P.S. Yes, it's worth it.

[Arkandeus]

come, my child, into the world of desire enlightenment 

enlightenment is joyful, graceful, light, easeful, fun, exciting, easy, simple

 

simple, simple, simple, simple, simple, simple, simple, simple, simple

follow your feelings, do not pursue what feels bad, fear, suffering

follow your feelings, pursue that which feels good, expanding, comfortable! joyful! simplicity

there are very comfortable ways to steps out of your comfort zone and there are very uncomfortable ways to do so

the enlightenment that I pursue, I do not devalidate my feelings by valueing facing fear and suffering, its simply counter-intuitive as to how your feelings guide you, fear and suffering bring zero life lessons, in my personal experience, I do not judge others experiences

just think, if you had a date coming up with say the love of your life, you guys are already together and tomorrow you're going on a date, getting dinner together

would you be tumbling in your bed the night before being afraid that your life would crumble at the extent of that date? imagining things left and right, weighing the benefits of going to date versus not going to the date?

No! its the love of your life, you'll simply happily go the date!

if you're feeling anxiety, tense feelings, stress, now in this moment at the thought of manifesting a physical event in the nearby future, in this case a 5 meo-dmt retreat, you have to be careful and consider listening to your feelings

these are life-affirming decisions, when you listen to your feelings, and decide the next course, you're prioritizing certain parts of your experience

life happens now, in the present moment, if you go through with this, you're saying to life 'I don't mind stress, anxiety, tense feelings, uncertainty, suffering, if there's a chance I can gain that which I project I can gain"

is this how you imagine enlighenment to be, always having to struggle, scrap, push through, face through in order to evolve and achieve?

or do you imagine enlightenment to be like going on a date with the love of your life? simply following what feels good and serene

 

I guess there are people who enjoy warrior enlightement, in my personal case I'm done fighting and I enjoy the ease of lover enlightenment

Edited September 5, 2018 by Arkandeus

[yawning_]

@Lynnel

both of the above, considered together, could adequate a simplified idea of it

 

it is very much the "hero's journey" if you want a digestible version to reduce it to

 

however, putting it in concept is by nature arbitrary

 

_ speaking from awakening exxxperiences over the years

 

choice profile picture 

"keep calm and do the inner work"

 

 

n̻͕̜̲͓͉̙̣͈̤̬̮̟̳̄ͩͧ́̏̓ͨ͊̚a͎̪̣̺̻̦̦̘̫̦̝̙̬͎̮̗̪̓ͤ̇̔m̤̤̼̭ͧͤͪͨͥ͋̈͂̐́̌ă̗͈̰̲̫̼̗͈̗͚̪̭͉̼͔̟̇̾͆̎͛͌́͑͆̐̍̾s̳̥̪͎͕̤̰͔̤̝͕͙̔ͤ͐̐͛̄͂ͯ̋ͯ̈́̄̚̚ͅt̹̙̼̙̤̹͎̥̣̮̝̭̜͔̀̓̄̾̍͂͌͋̍͛̇̉ͪ̒̍ͩȅ̥̪͙͙͉̦̜̩̀ͦ̽̂̏͑͋͛̚ͅ

 

- yawning gap

[Lynnel]

@yawning_ Well it doesn't sound that great to be honest

On the other side after listening to Leo's video the whole looking at the stars thing struck me deeply as I've been this way many many times. Now I'm wondering whether everything I ever wanted was actually spirituality and not more egoic things to enjoy.

@Arkandeus  I really appreciate your input. How do I make the difference between egoic excuses and actually not being ready ? Usually I tend to ignore the whole thing based on the fact well if I'm not progressing it's not worth living anyway so my life is getting only worse thus I'm ready to take any risk like taking mushrooms for instance to

go further. But I'm not sure about this attitude of alway "hurting" myself. On the other side will I ever feel like it otherwise ? x)

9 hours ago, Arkandeus said:

is this how you imagine enlighenment to be, always having to struggle, scrap, push through, face through in order to evolve and achieve?

 

This is how I imagine everything to be honest - I've always had to suffer for anything worthwhile and I consider life unforgiving and hard and unloving and something along the line of being forsaken and I do live life like an endless struggle for better so yeah that's not a pretty picture if I'm totaly honest. Yeah I don't have a positive outlook on life no matter how many lies I tell myself about being positive. Like I would describe life doing a series of thing you do not want just to remain alive. Okay I'm gonna go rant in my journal Thanks again for your help I appreciate it.

[ajasatya]

On 29/08/2018 at 0:28 PM, Lynnel said:

Is it worth it ?

short answer: no.

[Lynnel]

47 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

short answer: no.

Oh c'mon. Please explain your reasoning at least

Edited September 5, 2018 by Lynnel

[RabbitHole]

Just go for whatever feels right. I dedicated myself to reaching enlightment and then stopped, well I still read and have spiritual practices, but there is nothing you can take with you on path to enlightment, you drop everything and I mean It, friends, things, values, beliefs, mind, you leave It all. Your ego is afraid of this as to reach enlightment you have to go against It's will, which feels like going against yourself and you do feel It that way. Is the end worth It? Who knows, choose to focus on my human goals (financial, career, sports etc.) and continue with my path in a dedicated way (I still go deeper, but I keep It at slow pace) when I get older and have reached my goals. Journey Itself brings the most blissfull and most hell-like experiences, consciouss chosen enlightment takes extreme dedication and courage, but what I can tell is, once you have this question, you might take a break or slow down, but you will always move towards It anyway. I chose to live as a human, so that's what I'm going to do, when I'll get bored: "Enlightment, here I come."

Main thing for you to understand is - you will destroy everything that you are, have, believe etc.  High psychdelic dose gives pretty good idea of what you are, what ego consists of and what anything means. Don't confuse psychdelic ego death with enlightment, It's not the same, but If you experience ego death then you can answer to question whether you're ready or not.

Edited September 5, 2018 by RabbitHole

[Arkandeus]

1 hour ago, Lynnel said:

This is how I imagine everything to be honest - I've always had to suffer for anything worthwhile and I consider life unforgiving and hard and unloving and something along the line of being forsaken and I do live life like an endless struggle for better so yeah that's not a pretty picture if I'm totaly honest. Yeah I don't have a positive outlook on life no matter how many lies I tell myself about being positive. Like I would describe life doing a series of thing you do not want just to remain alive. Okay I'm gonna go rant in my journal Thanks again for your help I appreciate it.

quite indeed, realizing this is amazing, knowing yourself and what you want step by step, being honest and have a clearer view then before, you are the light of your being! consciousness, love

if I am being honest in my experience, honesty is the path straight to enlightenment, through enlightenment

real honesty like you just did, its amazing

and I say through enlightenment, because enlightemment is a concept, real enlightemment is very personal, very intimate to your being, your beliefs and imaginations

guru's, and books, and psychedelics and buddhas can get you on the way, paint you a picture, but ultimately enlightenment is your experience, your life, your perspective, your conscious, awareness, you arrive at yourself

the concept of enlightenment and the guru's are the stepping stones

what do you imagine life to be, what do you desire life to be, how you desire enlightenment to be, it is you, you are the universe, you are life, life is conscious, you are conscious

and for that look into your heart! what excites you! fantasy, action, love, creation, ease, satisfaction? its a free for all its magic, what do you truly desire, lets roooooollll into fun

Edited September 5, 2018 by Arkandeus

[ajasatya]

35 minutes ago, Lynnel said:

Oh c'mon. Please explain your reasoning at least

enlightenment doesn't fulfill the ego in any way.

people usually don't understand what enlightenment actually requires in practice. they usually have an idea of enlightenment, but an idea is far far away from what it is.

when we say "cut the ego crap", it's not just a mental process. it demands LITERAL ACTION. sell/give away the excess. drop all the dramas of your life. live with the minimum necessary so that your meditation sessions will fill emptier and emptier. implement meditation in your daily activities until you meditate 24/7.

it's about losing and losing. there's nothing to gain. it's pointless...

if you actually do what it takes, you will feel huge anxiety spikes. you'll feel your life being wasted day after day. no new friends, no new things... just barely enough to survive.

when you go through all the emotional screams, when you feel like you're dying, then you'll have the chance to see through the suffering. you may realize what is IT that's alive. you may become conscious of the huge mystery that drives the Universe and creates Maya every instant.

Edited September 5, 2018 by ajasatya

[Nahm]

@Lynnel If you become enlightened, what do you think would be different? What would you do diffferently? What would you hope for in terms of change? (I realize I’m asking you to speculate)

[Hello from Russia]

I'm not enlightened but from my experience the less ego you have - the more grounded, calm, tranquil and happy you become. Can't even imagine what complete egolessness could feel like in terms of feelings. I think it is worth it.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Hello from Russia

[Lynnel]

@RabbitHole I've also been thinking about this. Yeah I'll just go for enlightenement when I have nothing else to do. The big issue is well I might be missing something really big - this whole spiritual connection you really want at green and at higher stages and a LOT of psychological benefits related to psychedelics. Which would be quite sad.

@ajasatya  Is is based on your direct experience ? Because Leo for instance seems to enjoy his progressive enlightenement a LOT. Also I've been dissociated from the body-mind at time so there is no such thing as "my" ego - there is just an ego happening within awareness. There is also another english speaking ego "Eckhart tolle" happening somewhere else using a mind to explain concepts. Eckhart himself just suffered until he got enlightened and he seems to be doing great.

@Arkandeus Thank you for your support. So you would hold off doing something which seems too hardcore and wait for a loving date with destiny ? (That sounds a bit cheesy but I like the concept) even if I feel like this might be avoidance hmmmm.

@Nahm Well I feel like since there is gonna be no more ego - there is not gonna be anymore me to experience life so no purpose to existing so it's basically like dying + it seems like it's true real physical death (not my speculation about the death of the physical). The big difference would be a permanent state where the body-mind is aware of me => I'm aware of myself and of my true nature and thus the ego is malleable and I (the body-mind) 'm will be able to change however I want, solve all psychological problems, reach deep into turquoise mastery, learn a lot of "physical" healing, etc. I was thinking about the 5-meo retreat for the masculine energy/motivation and diverse psychological benefits, not understanding the nature of reality. I'm not yet very spiritually oriented. Sorry if this doesn't exactly answer your question but thank you for taking your time to help me !

[Arkandeus]

@Lynnel

exactly, look at it like self-love, taking your time, letting things come and flow

and moreover you leave space for life to come to you, you stop trying to force enlightenment

its exactly like a date with life, enlightenment is a gentle alliance between life and yourself

 

BUT,if you seek thrills, and you like to overcome challenges you're free to do so

thats true freedom, thats love, no matter which path you take enlightenment follows you, that is truly love, the nature of this universe

Edited September 5, 2018 by Arkandeus

[yawning_]

@Lynnel

sounds like you already are on the journey so to speak, whether it be towards self actualization or just development/growth in general

 

keep doing what you're doing, keep learning and exploring

 

consider progressing towards a more holistic approach, seeking to include all facets of your life into this development (diet, relationships, exercise etc.)

 

if you do not already have a practice of meditation, deep breathing and or yoga, i would highly recommend including any or ideally all three into your daily routine... however, do them without a destination in mind, don't do them thinking "im going to attain enlightenment" ...

consider them as you would brushing your teeth or taking a shower

 

i encourage you to challenge yourself to stick to any one or all three of these practices every day for a month to start, the benefits are huge and are accumulative over time... take it seriously and pretty soon you will be baffled why you didn't start sooner

 

don't get too caught up in the details, action gets you results - not thought

 

try shrooms or a similar psychedelic if you're curious, just do proper research and remember the importance of set and setting

 

wishing you all the best, bless

 

ń͉̝̭̬̜͔͈ͦ̂ͦ̈́͑ͧͫͅǎ̼͈̣̜̤͈̹̰ͤ̄̐ͦ͋̔̾ͩͧ̈̎̚m̳̻̗͉͖̘̱̖͔̮̥̜̮͕̗̤̐̂͑͊͛͒̆ͪͦͤả͚̙̬̹̟̩̰͎̣͎̗̥̝̓͌̄͑̿ͨͅs̥̺̺̖̤̞̱͓̞͓̗̤̝̿̐̿̈́ͭt̥̭͇̩̩̰̹͈̤̗̳͗͋ͮ̓̿ͨ̆̿͗̾̇̀ͧ̋͋ͯͦ̈ͅė̱̞̦͕̜̣̞̠̬̪͍̠̟͇̭̝̗́̆̆

 

- yawning gap

[Lynnel]

@yawning_

I've been doing daily meditation for more than 2 years, kriya yoga for almost 6 months, so I'm doing well on that front I've done other forms of yoga, some advaita vedanta teachings, some vipassana, but I'm mainly interested in growth and not enlightenement directly.

The whole question is if I'm ready to take it to a whole new level by having a ego-death experience on 5meo. That's why I started this topic.

[yawning_]

@Lynnel

oh right on! please excuse that part then

 

psilocybin is remarkably similar in molecular structure (visually anyway) to dmt, and somewhat comparable in experience as translated through the body -- maybe consider dipping your toes in with a few sessions of that if you're unsure

 

>fear/resistance is but a precursor to understanding, there is much more to be gained by facing it than turning from it<

 

n̹̝̣̳̙̩̽̎̔͊ͦͯ̽ͬͬa̹̭͕̬̗͔̪ͦͣ͂̐m͖̳͖̥̭̞̰̻͈̩̭̻̺̂̔̆̍͌̿̄̎͑ͅǎ̩̪̣̼̞̙̼͍̯͉̮̗̼͎̺̓ͮ͗̊̄ͣ̄͊ͧͦ͛̚ͅs͇̻͉̝̺̫̺̗͓̮̼̈́̍̽ͫ̓̎͊ͯ̀̊̏́̊͌̉ͮͯ̌t͍͔̳̱̭̯͕̝͓ͦ̽̔͋ͨ̓̓̊ͭ͆͌̋ͦͅe̟̙̠̖̣̫̳̜̮͆ͭͧ̈́ͅ

 

- yawning gap

Edited September 8, 2018 by yawning_
>?<