The One that Watches Everything or The Ones who watch Everything

[SoonHei]

I was having a discussion with a friend who has just recently picked up the topic of non-duality and is in his early stages of research.

 

He was watching a Mooji video that talks about "the one who watches everything"

He is also a Muslim like me and our belief is that there is each of us, our souls which are "inside" our bodies and then there is the creator of the souls, Allah/God

Call it soul/consciousness/awareness there is no issue/dispute about that.

 

What stumped me was when my friend asked me:

isn't self-inquiry into that which watches everything a very personal experience and truth? for example, when asked that Can the one who watches everything be seen? how can we say it cannot be seen? it's like asking can the essence of myself (can my soul) see itself? of course it cannot see itself, a hand cannot grab itself... a person in form, cannot see their own face... 

what he was trying to point out is that sure, we all will arrive at the conclusion that the One (deep inside each of us / our soul) who watches everything cannot be seen... but cannot be seen by whom? by itself...

how do we know that it cannot be seen by Allah/God... ?

and that's quite valid... like i can ask myself this in my human form... can i see my face? no. but my friend standing infront of me can.

 

is this just a belief that the one who watches everything CANNOT BE SEEN ? is it not possible that there could be something meta to our beingness which could watch each of our Ones that Watch Everything

?? please someone clarify?

i was thinking that maybe this question arises because it is an intellectual discussion but so many other things when discussing non-duality are pointed out as just beliefs and assumptions... what if this here is another belief and assumption

 

he also mentioned due to our religous teachings that prophet Muhammad, said no such thing about each of us at our core being God... there is us, our souls that is, and there is GOD (the real ONE who watches everything and everyone's point of view/experience) 

[Rilles]

So if Allah can see “consciousness” then who is seeing through Allahs “eyes”?

[SoonHei]

@Rilles Allah/God is seeing thru Allah's eyes ?

 

i don't know...

 

i'm trying to understand this gap/bridge too. i was clear about this understanding until his question nudged me off track lol

 

it's like let's say in a prison cell, inmates are watched by the security guard... and you're asking who is seeing thru the security guard's eyes... and the answer is security guard lol 

 

so again, the question being... is it not a belief that what we are deep down cannot be seen/watched... ? because is it not just a belief that there is nothing meta to IT which can watch IT?

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Rilles Allah/God is seeing thru Allah's eyes ?

But that’s like saying I’m watching through my eyes, which is a circular argument, consciousness always has to be primary for something to exist right?

[SoonHei]

@Rilles oh, no, no. i meant it in this way.

that God/Allah being the supreme consciousness which sees all. that is the master of all the "I" 

so when jesus/muhammad/buddah etc all went deep inside and found nothingness . that was the essence of their own respective souls 

and then from those states when we ask the question who watches THAT  - we can say, the One who watches THAT is META-to-THAT  , therefore, we cannot confirm it. 

as we cannot confirm it, is it not just a belief that the ultimate see-er is what we are deep down? 

the ultimate see-er which One, who becomes enlightened, looks from... how can the ASSUMPTION be made that is the ultimate see-er not seen by anyone else META-to-IT ?

what if that ultimate see-er META-to-IT is what GOD is?

[Nahm]

@SoonHei

Brain doesn’t do infinite very well, though it is. 

The heart only does infinite. 

Just sit for a bit, pose a cognitive question, recieve the feeling answer. 

 

 

 

[tentacion]

Can you see the watcher, seer or observer? Can the seer or observer be located? The answer to both those questions seems to be no to me. But maybe after decades of meditation or snorting 5-meo can make you somehow see or become aware of the observer. If God is everything or apsolute infinity, an idea I like and which is probably true, then God is the ultimate observer or seer as well.  In the Vedas and Uphanisads the seer or witness is the Self or Soul, but the Self is also identical and One with Brahman (God, the ultimate source, the apsolute reality).

[SoonHei]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Just sit for a bit, pose a cognitive question, recieve the feeling answer. 

yes. will be meditating on this thought now till I see thru my question somehow and where I am going wrong

 

I think maybe this question itself will disappear once it is understood there is no I here doing the questioning... but I just don't see it yet  

 

4 minutes ago, tentacion said:

then God is the ultimate observer or seer as well.  In the Vedas and Uphanisads the seer or witness is the Self or Soul, but the Self is also identical and One with Brahman (God, the ultimate source, the apsolute reality).

hmmm

so it seems that since all is One. it can just be layers of the one object...

the enlightened human self level maybe a subset of God, the super-set, who ultimately watches all

 

i think maybe i kinda understood something in writing that above.. doesnt matter which step on the ladder one views from, there is ultimately ONE at the top of the ladder... maybe it is seen beyond doubt that THE ONE on-top of the ladder cannot be TOPPED and there is no concept of META-to-IT at that level of looking from the TOP-of the TOp

 

thank you <3

 

now, universe, let me feel the answer  @Nahm @tentacion

[Nahm]

@SoonHei Just keep it as simple as your own experience. Read your op through a filter of, is this my direct experience, or a thought?

 

[SoonHei]

@Nahm Hmm... do all thoughts not occur in the NOW aka direct experience? I guess you're talking about thoughts just being thoughts and not actualized reality that currently is present.

[Rilles]

@SoonHei I am pure banana being aware of itself is not the same as thinking i am pure banana. 

[SOUL]

As @Nahm alluded to, the infinite is a challenge for finite mind to grasp, even with that there is finite way to experience it. Let me ask you, @SoonHei , are you aware of your own awareness? Contemplate that.

[SoonHei]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

are you aware of your own awareness?

Yes, I am. I am aware of my own awareness. I am aware that I exist.

What next?

and yes, the issue here very likely is this: the infinite is a challenge for finite mind to grasp. But any pointing is appreciated  @SOUL

 

[SOUL]

13 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

Yes, I am. I am aware of my own awareness. I am aware that I exist.

What next?

If this simple realization doesn't reveal the nature of it to you presently then I suggest to contemplate it in meditation. Even a finite mind can be aware of it's own awareness, then consider the infinite.

Edited August 29, 2018 by SOUL

[SoonHei]

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

contemplate it in meditation

this here is what I need to do further then. Thank you  @SOUL

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@SoonHei Just keep it as simple as your own experience. Read your op through a filter of, is this my direct experience, or a thought?

 

I agree totally dudes. For me until recently I was not able to tell what was thought and not. I didn’t even see the connection between thought and experience or veil. Thats why for me it was helpful to start with understanding thought, experience, and the conection to “me”.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Jack River

[Nahm]

@Jack River ??

“I was born” is one my favorites.

[Jack River]

Just now, Nahm said:

@Jack River ??

“I was born” is one my favorites.

Lolol fosho dude

 

[Jack River]

@Nahm it’s crazy man. I feel like just in the last week I can actually understand things that you just said. It’s a miracle man

[Martin123]

And there I was, thinking that this was a discussion of English grammar
DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE MAXIMUM  

Edited August 29, 2018 by Martin123