Is becoming socially withdrawn a part of the Self-actualization journey?

[7thLetter]

I often would think so. Constant meditation and contemplation sort of requires you to have some alone time to be able to do these things, especially to take them to an even deeper level. And the more you self-actualize, the more you increase your level of consciousness meaning the more people won't be able to understand you and your thoughts? I mean you don't necessarily have to share your deep thoughts to everyone but, sometimes it could be a little bit difficult to connect with people at an intellectually stimulating level. You can have small talk with others for the fun of it but at the same time the small talk just seems so shallow and so meaningless. Isolation seems to open up the opportunity for more introspection, while keeping your life busy on the outside would cause a whole lot of distraction. Makes me think about Leo's video "Lifestyle Minimalism". In that video he mentions that we need to slow down our life and do less. People are so focused on doing things that they don't have any time to self-reflect.

Lately I've been a lot more socially withdrawn, I mean I've started seeing this in my life 1-2 years ago actually. Though I was always the introverted quiet type in elementary and high-school and rarely hung out with anyone during lunch. But I would say I always did have 1-5 close friends throughout my life. Nowadays, I've reached a point in my life where I wouldn't consider anyone my close friend. All the friends that I've had just had completely different ways of thinking than me that I sort of had to limit my interactions with them. I just think that I've been growing a whole lot internally and that its difficult to hang out with people who don't have the same values as me and share the same ideas as me. I often feel so hyper aware of people's psychological dysfunctions in their lives. I'm constantly analyzing people and what they say. Not so much to be judgemental of them but I tend to be a bit sensitive and it bothers me a whole lot when people talk in a condescending manner. But then I would also say that it bothers me when people don't have the vision and the understanding to see what I see. Cause its actually pretty rare to find anyone who has grown internally to a deeper level. I mean the best thing I've ever found in person, are entrepreneurs who do a lot of traditional self-help and tell themselves they've grown so much just because they've earned a lot of money for themselves.

Anyways, asking this question because I've been a lot more socially withdrawn, that could be a sign of growth but at the same time I looked it up and it says that social withdrawal is a symptom of someone who is depressed? I wouldn't say I'm depressed though. I'm actually happy with myself and my isolation. I often go out in nature and I love sitting by the water by myself contemplating life and very deep ideas. I don't often study what monks do but my general understanding of them is that they are sort of this way too. How they would dedicate their whole lives for meditation and live in a cave or meditate at the top of a mountain. Relationships, drugs, food, sex, fun, all that stuff just seems like a complete distraction. I'm sure several other people in the self-actualization community would agree as with that as well. From my understanding, the result of self-actualization seems to help you focus on the being aspect of life rather than having and doing more. Meaning you can sit in a dark corner your whole life with nothing at all and be happy. Also meaning that as a result of all the inner work would mean you sort of have less and less, in a good way. Because less is more.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

I think for the path towards enlightenment it is an aspect of it. Talking and constantly interacting with people can be a distraction and take you out of the moment of being aware. That's not to say you have to go full monk mode but I've noticed most people who are prioritizing enlightenment aren't going out to parties, clubs and interacting a ton with people.

[PsiloPutty]

Oh yeah, I can relate to your post. I have a couple close friends, but they aren't into spiritual work. Home and work is all I do during the week, but I get out in nature on most weekends. Biking, kayaking, camping, meditating.....typically all by myself. It's what I feel I need right now. 

 

[7thLetter]

@Widdle Puppy Hmm, I often get Enlightment work and Self-actualization work confused. I kind of see Self-actualization as one whole thing including Enlightenment. But that’s just me. I guess Self-actualization is more so focused on improving your psychology? Although I see the Spiral Dynamics model as part of Self-actualization and some stages such as Orange and Yellow are described to be a little cold, independant, individualistic, distant, or aloof in some social settings.

@PsiloPutty Same here, work, gym, and stay at home. Then getting out in nature, biking by the water on the weekends. From an outside perspective people would assume its a boring life but to me its awesome when you practice inner work and study and contemplate some very deep topics

[Martin123]

@7thLetter Actually profound times of loneliness is one of the necessary stages your ego goes through while its being unraveled. :-) 
Strangely enough, even though it often does, it doesn't need to include social isolation, it can actually be just a feeling of completele loneliness while surrounded by friends, or in a crowd (I have certainly had that so many times).

[Forestluv]

When I started experiencing epidsodes of nonduality I had difficulty communicating with people. I withdrew and spent a lot of time in nature. It's been an ongoing process of adjustment to interact with others. 

[aurum]

@7thLetter

I've definitely had periods where I just needed to unplug and go within for awhile. But in my experience, that isn't meant to last.

I don't equate self-actualization with becoming becoming some sort of hermit that can't live in society. And I think a lot of people in the rationalize their lack of connection with others with spiritual ego, i.e "look at me, I'm so conscious. I don't need to associate with you sleepwalkers anymore".

From a more pragmatic perspective, people have everything you want. You're free to not associate with other people. But don't be surprised when you can't find a partner for your dream business. Or can't get funding for your charity. Or no one buys your music album. Or you can't get a girlfriend. Or no one picks you up at the airport. Or you can't get a job recommendation. Or you can't find a gym partner. Or you can't afford to travel. Etc etc etc.

In essence, you are not some independent island that can do everything yourself.

Or, if you really don't care about anything I just listed, just say fuck it and go live in an ashram in India. But make a real decision, not a decision based on fear, past wounds and rationalizations.

Personally I've chosen to associate and engage with others. This world is a mirror, and your experience of people will be a reflection of you, not them.

[7thLetter]

@Serotoninluv Reminds me of what Leo said in one of his videos about how after taking some hardcore psychedelics, his results in the external world plummetted. With his business for example. I mean he seems to be very consistent with his work and his uploads so I don’t know when that ever actually happened.

@aurum Well would you equate Enlightenment with becoming a hermit? I often would get Self-actualization and Enlightenment work mixed up. I usually assume people who do one would do both.

Anyways, I’m not coming from a place of arrogance and thinking in the way you described with “oh I’m so conscious I can’t interact with you anymore.” I should have made that more clear because I had a feeling someone would bring something like that up. To make it simple, I guess for me personally its coming from more of a place of having difficulty finding interest in what people talk about and having the need to conserve my energy as an introvert (INTP). Who knows if its growth or not, maybe it is, maybe its not. But maybe it could just be that I’ve developed a deep interest in self-actualization topics over the years and that no other topic would be more interesting to me. If you know me personally you wouldn’t say I come from a place of arrogance and that I’m too conscious for everyone. In a workplace I would usually socialize with at least 10% of the people there daily. Only 10% cause I find it easier to talk to people who work the same position as me, and I’m not the type to make friends with everyone because of my personality. So I am friendly with most people, but I’m saying when it comes to hanging out with people, making close friends, and having deep relationships, that is not easy to come by. Also another thing about me is that I’ve worked in a lot of social settings my whole life in a ton of restaurants working the front of house. Plus I used to do pickup, so that means I used to value socialization because I’ve always wanted to improve my social skills and all that.

This is just my mental projection, I honestly don’t know you personally and where you are at in your development, but I often get an RSD vibe off of you, with me being around these forums for a while. Maybe you do value the things you just listed with finding a dream partner, and all that but I feel like the even deeper work is in becoming a hermit? Wouldn’t spiritual growth mean that you don’t have any attachments? Obviously we’re all free to do whatever we want in life but I’m just here to try to understand the true inner work of self-actualization or enlightenment.

Also, this is why I made this post because I truly want to understand what is going on with me. If maybe I am coming from a place of ego? Or depression? Or maybe it is a part of the self-actualization path? Stage Orange cold behavior? Maybe stage yellow cold, distant, and forgetting to connect with people because of their deep analytical thinking? Because I really don’t know.

 

 

[aurum]

47 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

Well would you equate Enlightenment with becoming a hermit? I often would get Self-actualization and Enlightenment work mixed up. I usually assume people who do one would do both.

No, I wouldn't equate it with that. That's a caricature. 

58 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

But maybe it could just be that I’ve developed a deep interest in self-actualization topics over the years and that no other topic would be more interesting to me

I agree, self-actualization is probably my favorite topic as well. That's why I'm on this forum. But socializing isn't just about talking about your favorite topic.

1 hour ago, 7thLetter said:

This is just my mental projection, I honestly don’t know you personally and where you are at in your development, but I often get an RSD vibe off of you, with me being around these forums for a while.

No, you nailed it. I'm a big fan of RSD.

1 hour ago, 7thLetter said:

 Maybe you do value the things you just listed with finding a dream partner, and all that but I feel like the even deeper work is in becoming a hermit? Wouldn’t spiritual growth mean that you don’t have any attachments?

No, because that's not what it means to not have any attachments.

Attachment is an energetic thing. When people are attached, there's a clinging, low-vibration type of energy to it. They can't let it go. And it creates a lot of Win / Lose situations in the world.

However, the universe is smart. It knows you're attached and that you've got to let it go. So what often happens is a situation will arise where the person is forced into letting go of whatever they were attached to.

By being stripped of the thing they want, the person is forced to emotionally and energetically expel that low-vibration from their system. The attachment is released.

Once the attachment is energetically released, it opens up a new way of being. A way based on high vibration energy and gratitude.

Now when something you want comes into your life, you don't cling and try to make it this permanent thing. You just say "wow, thank you. What a gift". And when it leaves, you say "wow, thank you. So glad I had that gift".

But this is the funny part. Because you've passed the universal test of not being attached and having gratitude instead, the universe will flood whatever you want in.

You said you did pickup, so I know you know this. What's it like when you're attached to the outcome of picking up girls? Rejection, anger, pain. Girls think you're creepy.

What's it like when you're not attached? You're the motherfucking man, every girl loves you.

Another example. When I look at interviews with Warren Buffett, I don't get a sense he's a guy that is attached to money at all. I think he likes money, I think he's grateful for the money he has. But I really get a vibe that he also just loves the process of investing.

Now, it is true that by releasing all attachments you may find that what interest you before now longer interests you. That's fine, all that means is that desire was never authentic anyway. It's the attachments that hide what you actually care about doing / having in your life.

[floresflowerscgf]

I wonder why people's conversations do not interest you. I feel as though there is so much to gain from hearing different perspectives including that which may seem "shallow" to you. Is it also possible that you have not given people enough time to break the ice of the social niceties in order to get to the deeper stuff? As Bill Nye said,  "Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't". Perhaps that is something to delve into yourself to understand why you do not wish to have that basic human connection for such an extended time. I have definitely had waves of being more recluse and times of being more social and I think that is completely normal no matter the reason.

[7thLetter]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

No, I wouldn't equate it with that. That's a caricature.

I mean the fastest way to grow internally would be to do more inner work. Meaning if you want to get there as fast as possible then you would pretty much have to do the work 24/7. And the inner work means the contemplation, meditation, sitting in solitude, enjoying nature, etc. Same thing applies with everything else, if you want to get good at a sport then you would practice everyday and it helps to have a clean diet and to go to the gym. To get at pickup you have to be consistent with it and you'll get there faster if you come at it with the right approach and go out everyday and do day game + night game rather than just going out on the weekends. Let's look at Leo for example, we obviously don't know every single thing that he does in his life but personally I would imagine he tends to focus a whole lot on acquiring new insights so that he can share it on his channel and for his own personal interest and does a whole lot of meditation etc. And that takes a whole lot of work and time so I doubt that he spends time hanging out with friends and parties on the weekend. He mentioned in his videos he did pickup but I think that was dead a long time ago for him. But I guess what we do know is that he recently had a 30-day meditation retreat at home, where he basically did nothing but sit at home for 30-days. That's what you call real inner work. Now do that 24/7 and I'm pretty sure you will grow a lot quicker anyone else who isn't doing that.

1 hour ago, aurum said:

I agree, self-actualization is probably my favorite topic as well. That's why I'm on this forum. But socializing isn't just about talking about your favorite topic.

Course its not about talking about your favorite topic, but to have someone as a close friend I think that's pretty important. How boring would that be if you had a friend who doesn't know a thing about what you're interested in? You're basically just friends because you have the same haircut and walk the same way.

1 hour ago, aurum said:

No, you nailed it. I'm a big fan of RSD.

No, because that's not what it means to not have any attachments.

Thought so. Also checked 1 or 2 of your videos and it seems to me like videos RSDJulien would make lol

I mean I didn't really explain what I think what having attachments meant to me, I'd say I already have a decent understanding of what it means. But I was just trying to give you some feedback and I didn't want to be too blunt about it. So I randomly added "Wouldn't spiritual growth mean that you don't have any attachments?" Without explaining what I meant. I really hope you are open to what I think but since I get an RSD vibe off of you, I would think that you also come from a place of stage orange on the spiral dynamics model. Which is obviously not a bad thing, I would consider a huge part of me in stage orange as well, I love trading forex and pursuing money. But at the same time I want to understand self-actualization at the deepest level possible. I have my understandings, and you're coming from a different perspective so I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. But from what I've seen so far based on maybe 3-4 posts of yours, you seem to defend the things that you pursue externally. With pickup, business, friends, etc. Which is why I tried to mention detachment because I think detachment is about letting those external things go and prioritizing being. So I'm not too bought into what you are saying about how pursuing self-actualization or enlightenment wouldn't result in social withdrawal because I just feel like you're denying the harsh truth of it. And again not trying to be rude or judgemental here but just trying to understand the truth of self-actualization at its deepest level. There's surface level Tai Lopez, Tony Robbins, type personal development and then there's the deep stuff Leo talks about.

I know you're a mod and all so take what I said with a grain of salt

 

[7thLetter]

@floresflowerscgf You're definitely right, maybe I haven't given enough time for people to get into the deeper stuff. Maybe I don't ask the right questions for people to get into it. Though the questions I usually ask are me trying to figure out what they are interested in. Usually by asking them what they do on their free time or what they watch on Youtube. That usually gives it away but I would think that if they actually did have a deep interest in philosophical and psychological topics then maybe they would hide it, like me. I am rarely open about my interests with self-actualization so I would usually talk about an artist's new album or anything that a lot of people can relate to which I would also have an interest in but isn't as meaningful to me. But yeah, I guess I come from the assumption that its rare for people to pursue spirituality or self-actualization so that means almost no one around me would know about it so I bother not to ask.

[Leo Gura]

There are healthy and unhealthy ways to be socially withdrawn.

In the healthy version, you desire isolation so that you can focus on working on your consciousness.

Many sages have socially withdrawn themselves to high degrees that would seem unhealthy to most people. But they were just hardcore in their practices. This isn't strictly necessary, but it may be for some people for some period of time until they finish their work.

In the end, there is only the one Self, so all those other people are none other than you. So whether you are with people or not, you are still always alone.

There is no problem being alone as long as you enjoy it and you are not becoming more and more depressed or mentally unstable.

[Nahm]

@7thLetter No need to equate spending time with practices, with being socially withdrawn, anymore than choosing between drinking water or urinating. Both is fine, plenty of time for each.  You are laying the very groundwork you seek to surrender. Contemplate, where did I pick up this need for people to understand me?  Who, in my past, never understood me? When did I put this filter of ‘people don’t understand me’ on? Intellectual stimulation is mental masterbation, self inquiry is in bloom. Both are just fine, but you could use more of the latter, imo. 

See how you make small talk meaningless, but you value intellectual stimulation - this stands to support your ego, that “you” are an intellectual. But you are so far beyond that. Everone will always be thinking differently than you, can you even imagine a world of 7 billion 7thLetter’s? How boring would that be for you? The uniqueness is the beauty. Furthermore, is that really even your direct experience? - that there are other people, and that they are thinking? 

Hard to hang with people with diffferent values? Realize the falsity of your own values, you can love everyone, no judgement needed. Don’t box everyone out for your intelligence / ego, bring everyone in for love, for your happiness, for their happiness, and watch your energy go through the roof.

Consider all that you expressed in you op is the result of being directionless, or thus far, not having sat down, and written out / drawn / created / manifested / planned - your life. What you want. Where you’re headed. Do this, you’ll see the miracle of sychronicty as all of relativity aligns to your knowing you are a creator of dreams.  Everything is already relative to you. You are already the center of the universe. You are free, already. Dream big. 

On 8/29/2018 at 2:22 AM, 7thLetter said:

. I often feel so hyper aware of people's psychological dysfunctions in their lives. I'm constantly analyzing people and what they say. Not so much to be judgemental of them but I tend to be a bit sensitive and it bothers me a whole lot when people talk in a condescending manner.

You can let go of that. You can see the love, the YOU in people. If you see the dysfunction to the degree it bothers you and you are isolating yourself, consider, that is a dysfunction you created in your perception, and because you added it, you can surrender it.  Aren’t you simply perpetuating dysfunction, and blaming others for yours? 

There is a large amount of judgment and dismissing people going on - it’s simply over thinking, distracting you from this otherwise perfect miracle now. 

People, society, relationships can’t ‘fix’ this for you. What if right now, everyone understood you, and held your intellectual mastery in the highest regard. You think you’d feel more connected, more love, happier? Or would it only disconnect you more? Learn, develop, of course, just see how it can have nothing to do with anyone else. You developed and created over thinking all on your own, and you can let it go too. This ‘fabric between us’, this ‘objective reality’ is love, and adding anything to it, is counter productive to well being, because it’s false. Your inner compass has never told you otherwise. “2 ears 1 mouth” by design.

[aurum]

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

mean the fastest way to grow internally would be to do more inner work. Meaning if you want to get there as fast as possible then you would pretty much have to do the work 24/7. And the inner work means the contemplation, meditation, sitting in solitude, enjoying nature, etc. Same thing applies with everything else, if you want to get good at a sport then you would practice everyday and it helps to have a clean diet and to go to the gym. To get at pickup you have to be consistent with it and you'll get there faster if you come at it with the right approach and go out everyday and do day game + night game rather than just going out on the weekends. Let's look at Leo for example, we obviously don't know every single thing that he does in his life but personally I would imagine he tends to focus a whole lot on acquiring new insights so that he can share it on his channel and for his own personal interest and does a whole lot of meditation etc. And that takes a whole lot of work and time so I doubt that he spends time hanging out with friends and parties on the weekend. He mentioned in his videos he did pickup but I think that was dead a long time ago for him. But I guess what we do know is that he recently had a 30-day meditation retreat at home, where he basically did nothing but sit at home for 30-days. That's what you call real inner work. Now do that 24/7 and I'm pretty sure you will grow a lot quicker anyone else who isn't doing that.

That's a good argument and I agree with a lot of it. But I'd also say it lacks nuance.

For instance, if you read the book A Path With Heart by Jack Kornfield, he talks about how he thought he was enlightened because he was doing a lot of solo meditation work. Only to come back into the "real world" and find that many of his same problems remained, they just weren't being tested when he was in isolation.

Also, you could argue that a more direct method is not necessarily superior to an indirect method. Often indirect is far better.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

But from what I've seen so far based on maybe 3-4 posts of yours, you seem to defend the things that you pursue externally. With pickup, business, friends, etc.

Yes I do. There's a couple of reasons why I get like that.

What I've found at this point in my journey is that the spiritual is not more important than the physical, and the physical is not more important than the spiritual. Every time I prioritize one too much over the other, I get metaphorically slapped.

Everyone on this forum is more or less motivated to do the inner work. But there tends to be a lack of emphasis on producing tangible outcomes. I think that's a mistake. So I like to come in and give an alternative perspective, as opposed to just more spiritual truisms like "success won't make you happy".

Understand, because I'm a mod and have a bit of a rep, I get messages from guys who will say things like "I'm 20 years old and living in my parents basement. I've never had a girlfriend. But I don't care about that, how do I become enlightened?" And I just facepalm every time. It's massive spiritual bypassing.

I fall into it too. Spiritual work becomes your new comfort zone that you actually use to avoid the real problems in your life.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

So I'm not too bought into what you are saying about how pursuing self-actualization or enlightenment wouldn't result in social withdrawal because I just feel like you're denying the harsh truth of it.

That's fine. Go do as much isolation work as you want, I've done a ton myself. But I think you're going to find that even after all that work, there's a pull to reengage.

8 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

And again not trying to be rude or judgemental here but just trying to understand the truth of self-actualization at its deepest level. There's surface level Tai Lopez, Tony Robbins, type personal development and then there's the deep stuff Leo talks about.

I don't see it that way at all. I understand the actual content is obviously different, but to me it's still all the same.

[Widdle Puppy]

20 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

@Widdle Puppy Hmm, I often get Enlightment work and Self-actualization work confused. I kind of see Self-actualization as one whole thing including Enlightenment. But that’s just me. I guess Self-actualization is more so focused on improving your psychology? Although I see the Spiral Dynamics model as part of Self-actualization and some stages such as Orange and Yellow are described to be a little cold, independant, individualistic, distant, or aloof in some social settings.

I think there is a difference between the two attainments. I would say self actualization encompasses your creative capacities and sort of living with your ego in the most healthiest way possible and having the most healthy psychology you could possibly have while enlightenment goes beyond this and is an instantaneous realization that is much more foundational, profound and an infinite shift in perception. 

The reason you hear of such people becoming hermits is because enlightenment work can be difficult to do when you're tuned into the hustle and bustle of society. That's not to say you have to become a hermit or that doing so at a certain point in time is always going to be helpful. Becoming a recluse can do just as much damage as it can good. That is one of the dangers of this work. You can be walking in the wrong direction while putting in all this effort, kind of like climbing a mountain while blindfolded. So don't think just because one is isolated it is doing good for them or bad. Its going to depend on the person and where they are at and really a lot of things. But I would say in general most people who are going for the ultimate obtainment of enlightenment tend to live fairly low key and private lives just due to the realizations they've had and how easy it is for distractions to lower their awareness. 

Go do a meditation retreat for a week or ten days through any of the wonderful centers and modalities there are and see for yourself. 

[7thLetter]

@Leo Gura Thought so. This was definitely the answer I was looking for. For me personally I would say I sometimes am unsure of what is a result of doing inner work, or a result of being hurt emotionally/psychologically that would cause some sort of dysfunctional behavior in me. Not saying I live a life with a ton of psychological trauma, but I'm talking about some very small things like failing so many times to attract a girl that I like, that sometimes it would hurt me emotionally. Which is why I would question my detachment, because these days I wouldn't say I pursue women as often as I used to. But am I detached from a place of fear? Or am I coming from a place of self-love? I mean that's for myself to understand because no one else knows exactly what goes on in my life but writing this really makes me think deeply about my situation. And also I often read the signs and symptoms of several mental disorders like PTSD, Schizophrenia, etc. and it would often mention a social detachment from friends and family. So it often gets me questioning about myself. But sometimes I would also question if some doctor or psychologist would diagnose a socially detached sage or monk with some mental disorder since it's so out of the ordinary for the doctors or psychologists? Okay now my post here is getting a bit ridiculous now.

@Nahm It could just be the current paradigm that I am living in at the moment. I honestly just don't see the value in associating myself too much with others who don't have the same values as me. I just have a very strong belief in social conditioning. Where we are today mentally, is a result of our upbringing, who we surrounded ourselves with, what we did, etc. I mean I don't do it in some neurotic way and avoid everyone, but I will socialize with people mainly when I have the desire to. My previous workplaces were very social environments and I wouldn't say I had a lot of trouble getting along with people. Although all of that is within the workplace itself but when it comes to hanging out with people it can be difficult if we don't have a lot in common. Back to what I was saying about social conditioning, if someone talks in a condescending manner, talks crap about other people, then I don't find any value in that and of course I wouldn't want to hang out with that type of person. So I don't have too much understanding with finding love with everything and everyone. I have some understanding of what it means to accept everyone for who they are, but that doesn't mean you have to hang out with anyone. And for example if you understand and accept a girl for who she is that doesn't mean you have to be her boyfriend. There would need to be some attraction between the two. So for me to hang out with other people, I would have to find value in becoming their friend, and connect on a deep level. And if they're someone who always talks crap, great I understand how they were mentally conditioned to get to that point and its not really they're fault, I wouldn't want to be around them.

16 hours ago, aurum said:

I don't see it that way at all. I understand the actual content is obviously different, but to me it's still all the same.

@aurum Well I guess its all a matter of perspective. Leo just recently uploaded a video about that. Some will see the differences in things and some will see the similarities. I see the differences. The things Tony Robbins and Tai Lopez talks about is mainly about acquiring more externally. How to get more money and this and that. But when we look at the more spiritual esoteric teachings, that stuff won't necessarily help you achieve a whole lot externally. I often think it provides you with the opposite but with a whole lot internally. So basically Tai Lopez = external results, Leo = Internal results. I got into personal development in the first place from a place of ego. I wanted to sleep with hot girls, be more confident, get more money. But when I found Leo's channel 4 years ago and watched all his videos and applied most of it, I'd say I now value those things less and value being a whole lot more. But of course it does not get rid of external problems so we have to work jobs or do business and all that.

And btw Leo himself answered my question and to me that pretty much confirms what I was talking about with you in those previous posts.