introducing non-duality to friends - epic fail

[Charlotte]

@phoenix666 Yeah unfortunately not but never mind ? that was my last real life close friend, I officially have zero now. I'm not too bothered though, our energies no longer match and I'm peaceful with that

[Dash Us Pain]

As most people consider scientific evidence as real evidence, I would direct them to the double slit experiment and if they actually understand the enormity of what that experiment tells them, you could move on to the reasons why the past and future don't exist.

[lmfao]

@SoonHei I had a friend with whom I talked about meditation experiences with and how I've come to the realization that my actions and my thoughts are as much mine as every other event in my consciousness. He was someone who is quite open minded and intelligent, so I knew I could have a genuine conversation with him. People who are genuinely into philosophy, psychology, maths and science at an intuitive level will be open minded to non-duality. These sort of people are rare though. Most people don't care about such things. The way I started talking about non-duality (although I never called it that) was to talk about what it means to be a happy person and how we are constantly lost in thought, and meditation is a good remedy. There is bait here for stage orange and stage green thinking. And I then talked about insights I found along the way after starting meditation.

My friend doesn't meditate at all, in fact he was Muslim. Because of this, he probably found what I was describing uncomfortable at some level because it is easy to infer from my descriptions of non-dual experiences that free will doesn't exist. Overall though, he probably would have watched an alan watts video I linked to him had the video not been taken down on youtube. Even though I've said all this to him, until someone starts meditation they'll never resonate or truly understand what you're saying. I've tried getting 5 people I know (friend + 4 family members) to meditate, results have not been successful. I can't explain the idea of oneness of everything without it threatening their belief system and so I've purely marketed the fact that meditation improves mood and stops overthinking, helps you live in the present moment and be happy. 

But you see, religious folk who have been heavily indoctrinated will be forever closed to non-duality. To reiterate what I've learnt from talking to people, the best way I've found to sell non-duality is to market the benefits of meditation in terms that people understand. We are very neurotic people with low self esteem and cannot live in the present, and meditation will make you happier. And I'm not using the words "very" and "low" relative to what is average among people, otherwise I'd be contradicting myself to say that everyone is very neurotic. I'm using these words relative to what should be the case and/or relative to what can be the case. The five people I talked to were like "yeah I should try it" but everyone's too god damn lazy to do shit man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ego wants to end suffering, so that's a good way to market non-duality. Put yourself into the mindset of who you were before consciousness work.

Edited August 28, 2018 by lmfao

[phoenix666]

14 hours ago, Charlotte said:

that was my last real life close friend, I officially have zero now. I'm not too bothered though, our energies no longer match and I'm peaceful with that

wow, I'm glad it doesn't bother you too much. I feel you about energies no longer matching with most people.. but new ones will show up, where beautiful ideas to share can grow on much more fertile ground <3

[SoonHei]

@Dash Us Pain lol was so happy when i found this in my own research and said finally i can tell them and explain using the science but boy was I wrong about what their Egos would drop on me and themselves from keeping them locked into their current paradigm

#TheEgoKnows! LOL

 

16 hours ago, lmfao said:

Put yourself into the mindset of who you were before consciousness work.

@lmfao yes. this here is what grounds me lol

and also, i make reference to this point here too. that i know where you're coming from as i was in that place also

 

and yes, i guess you're right... the best you and I can do is to point them to the path... point them to what will point them to what points to the Truth, as direct pointing to the Truth can be quite challenging for someone who all this is new to

 

i like the points about introducing meditation which sneaks in the concepts thru the backdoor (upon them practicing meditation for a while that is) 

 

thank you  

[Charlotte]

@phoenix666 exactly lovely ?

[Sbilko]

@lmfao I completely agree with what you said. 

When I tried to explain it to people who were suffering, some were like "no thanks, I'm Christian."

Only one friend can understand (and is trying to understand) what I say about the absolute truth. And indeed, she's open-minded, agnostic, understanding, interested in philosophy and psychology. And as you said, these people are rare. 

When I explain it, I explain it in a way so that it makes sense. I believe only what I see, and I have the same scientific mindset, so I try to explain it with logical steps that go like this:

- When we look inside us, there is nothing solid and lasting which we can call "us."

- Therefore there is no "I". We are all matter and the universe is just a bunch of matter. 

- According to E=mc^2, all matter is energy. Therefore everyone and everything is just energy. 

From now on it's a question of terminology, you can call that everything as: energy, spirits, God, etc. 

[Haumea2018]

Listen up y'all,

You have to understand that different people are at different levels of spiritual development.

Not everyone is a spiritual seeker or ready to become one.

Don't attempt forcing a square peg into a round hole.

If you find people who you think are ready, inform them.

You gotta have respect for the evolutionary process, though.

Some people haven't even mastered basic rationality yet.

Leave them to progress at their own pace.

In other words, be wise about introducing people to spirituality.

[GodMonkey]

The spiral people. The spiral.

Would there be so many orange and blue people without some of idea of where this thing is going? I see orange and blue people creating problems that hit home and cause great suffering to their close relatives. Maybe if we were somehow able to see through this and look past the collateral damage we would see the necessity of it in the bigger picture. I have started to think that maybe people simply cannot understand certain points of view for a reason that we do not ourselves know. There is no I without you and them. I feel this is a simply futile struggle and at the same time am still bothered by it. But being where i am, at least i have the tools to deal with it.

[Solace]

The most powerful teaching an external being can give you is that through silence. Love the part of yourself that wants to tell your friends how great non-duality is; give that part of yourself the kindness and compassion it has always deserved. And keep surrendering all of your thoughts, and all of your desires to this great ocean of love in your heart, and one day, you will have the power to stand next to someone, say nothing, yet give them the most profound teaching possible.

Also I love Matt Kahn's approach to this! If they don't ask you, then don't talk about it, just keep asking them questions, when they are ready they will ask you directly by seeing how you have changed.

Namaste.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Solace

[Shadowraix]

I've tried explaining this a few times, the few people I told seem receptive to it, but it takes a bit for them to wrap their mind around it.

Although I always started by saying everything in its most fundamental form is mind. This is because it doesn't really force them to think too differently, you know the world still is what it is, but it just recontextualizes everything. Like how you can have a sand castle but its still sand despite its shape. Its just another step forward from everything being energy. 

The core point of nonduality of everything being one, I think one good way is to get them to look at you and ask "What separates you from me?" The shape of our atoms? The way they move? The distance of how far apart they are? These are all very arbitrary rules. There is really no definitive factor that separates anything. We can say there are multiple chairs in a room yet we have a singular universe which can highlight how our mind likes to group things up and is an illusion. So the conclusion is there is no separation, it is all one.

Don't present it as an absolute truth or else they will get defensive and feel challenged. Propose it as some sort of theory. I like to pull many quotes from modern day phrases and religion to show them that nonduality is an ancient idea and exists in many areas. Especially the word universe deriving from a latin word meaning "all is one"

[cirkussmile]

On 8/27/2018 at 6:44 PM, Nahm said:

@SoonHei

 

Nahm ?

 

 

[MiracleMan]

It was difficult, and still is difficult, or next to impossible to really have this discussion.

A person genuinely has to be ready, to hear it, or rather not the person, buddha.  If a person hears the message it doesn't go anywhere, if christ or buddha hears it then there is an unspoken guttural 'yes'.

You'll find no home with the scientific crowd, nor with the religious crowd.  You'll find little comfort in discussing it with those who are 'spiritual'.

This is such a radical message, you WILL be called crazy, insane, and most will think your a nut case.

It says a lot about the 'world'.  Most folks who come here have been so utterly shit on, have been so engaged with a narcissistic, relativistic, and cynical generation that they dont know what else to do.  They are sick of suffering.  They become empathetic, they imagine they are feeling the pain of the generation but it's all in HERE and not out THERE. 

So, along with this package comes a dangerous level of empathy, low self esteem, inferior/superior ego structure that alternates on a dime, and then once there is a taste of Truth, then comes the inhabiting of the savior mentality.

The savior wants to save the world, and rescue them from themselves, the savior knows what to do and understands the Truth.  In reality, what thinks it knows the truth isn't real.  Nothing that can be percieved can be perceiving, therefore all creation is ignorance.  Or in other words, less harsh, 'apparent' matter or solidity, any object whatsoever, has no life on it's own.  You are life, and nothing else.

We can spend time trying to rescue others from their suffering, but how can we help those if we haven't helped ourselves.  We are still putting the cart before the horse.  Healing the self is healing the world.

Our very first problem is the perception that what's happening in the world is wrong, and requires our part to correct it.  We cannot have one foot in an illusion and one foot in reality.  If people seem to be in agreement that the world is fucked, it's a choice to see it that way.

Nothing here matters all the much, it doesn't measure up to anything.  Relax into this taste of Truth, worry not for the morrow for the morrow will tend to itself.  The world could be hit by an asteroid tomorrow, poof, everything gone in a flash.  That's how insignificant all these goings on in the percieved world are.  That's where freedom is waiting, in the now, because it's really all we have, in a flash it will be done.

Edited August 30, 2018 by MiracleMan

[Nahm]

@cirkussmile LMAO.