One big question for gurus

[robdl]

20 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Awakening takes no time, it's instantaneous and in fact, the prospect of time may actually hinder the seeker.

Indeed.

The prospect of time (psychological time/time-thought) is the "seeker."     Time-thought nourishes the operation of the "seeker" and the "seeker" nourishes the operation of  time-thought, but it's all a unitary movement of thought-self. 

Seeker and time-thought are one.

When you say hinder the seeker, you're pointing to the reinforcement/validation of the seeker/I/ego. 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[Jack River]

Just now, robdl said:

Indeed.

The prospect of time (psychological time/time-thought) is the "seeker."     Time-thought nourishes the operation of the "seeker" and the "seeker" nourishes the operation of  time-thought, but it's all a unitary movement of thought-self. 

Seeker and time-thought are one.

 

Yep. BECOMING

[robdl]

The seeker loves the prospect of time, because time perpetuates the seeker.  And thought-self/the seeker, after all, is only interested in seeking security/permanence in its own movement.

Dissolve time, and you dissolve the seeker. Or more precisely, when whole, undivided observation dissolves the movement-momentum of time-thought, so too is dissolved the movement of seeker, concurrently.

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

The "I"/"seeker" --- made out of accumulated experience, memory, knowledge (the past) and volition, desire, ambition, striving (projected future, based on the past) --- not only depends upon time (recollected past, projected future) but IS time.

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[SoonHei]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

The "I"/"seeker" --- made out of accumulated experience, memory, knowledge (the past) and volition, desire, ambition, striving (projected future, based on the past) --- not only depends upon time (recollected past, projected future) but IS time.

 

woah. indeed. time. we ARE TIME! we, the illusory self = time

[Faceless]

@robdl indeed 

Psychological time implies resistance to what is, which is to elude the inevitability of the nature of WHAT IS; continuous change. 

Identification, (the movement of fear), seeks certainty in the continuation of more of the same. To cling to the old, (what has been), or to deny change. 

When there is this process of identification in movement, the veil of the past, influenced by fear, will then project itself in place of THE NOW. If identification is in motion this movement of time has already been presupposed and action has been made in accordance to that static movement, (incomplete-finite action) 

Therefore, time has fed itself and placed upon itself its own limit. Time feeds off its own movement of fear, and fear nourishes that movement of time, (Causation in motion).

Time-fear, being one and the same movement of identification, which is the process of (registration, recollection, and projection), or (the veil of experience as the i). 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

@SOUL Hi Soul. It is good to see ya. I am sorry for the things I said in the past. I didn’t know. Sorry. 

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, robdl said:

When you say hinder the seeker, you're pointing to the reinforcement/validation of the seeker/I/ego.

Well, my point was really about the prospect of time being a perceptual stumbling block to us being present, ironically. Being present in the moment is us being aware of the nature of time in it's absolute, the 'now'. The 'prospecting' as it were is us looking elsewhere, such as the future or past, other than the present.

Yes, the looking to, the 'prospect', other than the present moment, the now, can reinforce a sense of separation. So, a notion of endless hours of practice to attain something that actually is always available to us in the present moment is creating the separation, it's 'prospecting' enlightenment instead of just being aware.....now.

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, robdl said:

The "I"/"seeker" --- made out of accumulated experience, memory, knowledge (the past) and volition, desire, ambition, striving (projected future, based on the past) --- not only depends upon time (recollected past, projected future) but IS time.

The 'seeker' is our personification of the awareness, the observer, which resides in consciousness. The accumulation of experience is what's observed, the self, which continues to be observed by awareness in the present moment.

So the I, seeker, observer, awareness can be kept purified, so to speak, through our attention on the now, by being present in the moment. Allowing the 'observable' of accumulated experience to continue flowing without clinging to it.

I know that people use words differently for different reasons and may not use them as I do but I'm just trying to illuminate the distinction between the observer and the observed in our consciousness, the seeker from the sought.

[robdl]

5 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Well, my point was really about the prospect of time being a perceptual stumbling block to us being present, ironically.

 

Time = thoughts = thinker.  All one unitary movement.  The perpetuation of time is a stumbling block because it is a perpetuation of the so-called "thinker."

[SOUL]

34 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@SOUL Hi Soul. It is good to see ya. I am sorry for the things I said in the past. I didn’t know. Sorry. 

Yes, it's good to see you as well. I'm not sure what you are apologizing for but there isn't anything or any need to. I was not offended or hurt by any of our discussions, I enjoyed them. Peace.

Edited August 28, 2018 by SOUL

[robdl]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

 

So the I, seeker, observer, awareness can be kept purified, so to speak, through our attention on the now, by being present in the moment. Allowing the 'observable' of accumulated experience to continue flowing without clinging to it.

 

I use "I"/"seeker" in the sense of ego, the false sense of self.    

So I'm saying that the Observer (this false sense of self) is the Observed (memory, knowledge, experience).   "I" (the illusory I) is accumulated memory, knowledge, experience.

 

[Faceless]

23 minutes ago, SOUL said:

So, a notion of endless hours of practice to attain something that actually is always available to us in the present moment is creating the separation, it's 'prospecting' enlightenment instead of just being aware.....now.

Indeed, friend. Prospecting enlightenment, pursuit of the abstraction, away from what is, (the fact), being a perpetuation of time as the i, “the self”. 

Or as you say attachment or clinging to personafication. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Faceless

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, robdl said:

I use "I"/"seeker" in the sense of ego, the false sense of self.    

So I'm saying that the Observer (this false sense of self) is the Observed (memory, knowledge, experience).   "I" (the illusory I) is accumulated memory, knowledge, experience.

 

That is why a mentioned the differing uses of words, let's not get stuck on words, let's instead be aware of the message.

There is an accumulation of experience, there is also a persona of self conscious and there is the awareness of them. These are distinct yet are whole and all of this creates our consciousness regardless of whatever words one prefers to use for it.

[cetus]

17 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Indeed, friend. Prospecting enlightenment, pursuit of the abstraction, away from what is, (the fact), being a perpetuation of time as the i, “the self”. 

Or as you say attachment or clinging to personafication. 

 

 

@Faceless Can't help but thinking about Salvador Dali when you talk about time and fragmentation.

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, cetus56 said:

Can't help but thinking about Salvador Dali when you talk about time and fragmentation.

Ah, cool pictures, I never heard of it though. There is a similarity? 

[robdl]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

That is why a mentioned the differing uses of words, let's not get stuck on words, let's instead be aware of the message.

There is an accumulation of experience, there is also a persona of self conscious and there is the awareness of them. These are distinct yet are whole and all of this creates our consciousness regardless of whatever words one prefers to use for it.

Communication on here is impossible without some common ground on words. If I use seeker to mean false self and you use seeker to mean unconditioned awareness, we’re going to confuse each other’s intent and other people reading will be confused.

[Faceless]

18 minutes ago, SOUL said:

There is an accumulation of experience, there is also a persona of self conscious and there is the awareness of them.

I think @robdl is referring to it as a single unitary movement as the self, (time-identification).  

And the awareness is referring to seeing the whole of that movement as actually one movement in motion. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

Just now, Faceless said:

I think @robdl is referring to it as a single unitary movement as the (time-identification).  

Indeed. The false “I” and accumulated experience/psychological time are a single, unitary movement. Any distinction made between them is made by ego/thought.

[cetus]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

There is a similarity? 

@Faceless The same between you and Dali. Can you paint your insights as good as you can put them into words?