One big question for gurus

[robdl]

Just now, SOUL said:

"Time" and our "perception of time" are distinct from each other but both contribute to the manifestation of self in our consciousness.....whether we think it or not. There are other animals with a naturally occurring self identity but there is no conclusive evidence that they have 'thought' like we do.

Time, as in psychological time, as in memory (past) and projected thought as "future".  The "perceiver" of this psychological time and psychological time are one and the same thing.  No distinction.

[robdl]

1) The "perceiver" of psychological time is made out of psychological time itself. No distinction between perceiver of time and time itself.

2) The "thinker" of thoughts is made out of thoughts itself. No distinction between thinker of thoughts and thoughts themselves.

These two statements are saying the same thing.

 

Time = thoughts = thinker = time perceiver  ->> one single, unitary movement of thought-self

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

The movement of memory/past or projection/future (both psychological time) is one and the same movement as the time perceiver ("I").  No difference.

 

There is holistic, unconditioned insight that sees-understands this whole self-feeding loop of time/time perceiver.

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

The movement of thought conjures a false "I" that "thinks" it is separate/distinct from "its" experiences, memories - "My" memories, "my" experiences, and so on.  But in fact, it is one single, unitary movement of thought/experience/memory.  One self-feeding thought-loop.

It appears you complicate the conceptualization which can be a common occurrence in spiritualist circles and the very point of this thread. The complication of these things makes for endless hours of 'work' that people think needs to be done.

I'm prefer clarity and simple, be present, aware and at peace in just being. Which is why I don't spend much time on forums like this, it's too complicated and people are attached to their complex conceptualizations.

[SOUL]

14 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I think you will see what we mean soon by all this. 

 

Your time movement attachment is showing........ I don't need any of it, nobody really does, that's the point.

[robdl]

4 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It appears you complicate the conceptualization which can be a common occurrence in spiritualist circles and the very point of this thread. The complication of these things makes for endless hours of 'work' that people think needs to be done.

I'm prefer clarity and simple, be present, aware and at peace in just being. Which is why I don't spend much time on forums like this, it's too complicated and people are attached to their complex conceptualizations.

No concepts here.  I speak from direct seeing of the fact.  Like I said in my edit above: "there is holistic, unconditioned insight that sees-understands this whole self-feeding loop of time/time perceiver."  There is no "I"-entity apart from psychological time.  The "I"-entity is psychological time.

I am speaking from that insight.

Edited August 28, 2018 by robdl

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It appears you complicate the conceptualization which can be a common occurrence in spiritualist circles and the very point of this thread. The complication of these things makes for endless hours of 'work' that people think needs to be done.

I'm prefer clarity and simple, be present, aware and at peace in just being. Which is why I don't spend much time on forums like this, it's too complicated and people are attached to their complex conceptualizations.

Seeing the whole is very necessary. There can be no holistic timeless awareness otherwise. I can’t even imagine being able to maintain an awareness free of choice without being able to see it all as one movement. 

It actually makes it all very doable. Or non-do-able 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jack River

[cetus]

@riplo For the most part it's really all about the amount of time it takes the ego to fully erode. Most are so invested and lost in the ego when first starting they will be needing some words to help guide them out of the dream of self as it is happening. It took X amount of years to build the illusion. It usually doesn't crumble overnight.

[SOUL]

16 minutes ago, robdl said:

Time, as in psychological time, as in memory (past) and projected thought as "future".  The "perceiver" of this psychological time and psychological time are one and the same thing.  No distinction.

You do realize that there is actual 'time' apart from the perception of it? Meditate on awareness of the edge of time, observing that will clear this all up.

[robdl]

Just now, Jack River said:

Seeing the whole is very necessary. There can be no holistic timeless awareness otherwise. I can’t even imagine being able to maintain an awareness free of choice without being able to see it all as one movement. 

Yes, to see the whole movement of thought-self; not to see from within the loop of thought-self, which is intellect/conceptualization.

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

No concepts here.  I speak from direct seeing of the fact.  Like I said in my edit above: "there is holistic, unconditioned insight that sees-understands this whole self-feeding loop of time/time perceiver."  There is no "I"-entity apart from psychological time.  The "I"-entity is psychological time.

I am speaking from that insight.

Baha..... ok, we're really done here.

[robdl]

Just now, SOUL said:

You do realize that there is actual 'time' apart from the perception of it? Meditate on awareness of the edge of time, observing that will clear this all up.

I'm not talking about outward chronological time, of the clock, of the calendar.  

I'm talking about inner psychological time, that recollects the past, and projects the future.   There is no distinction between this psychological time and the "perceiver" of it.  They are a single, unitary movement.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

Yes, to see the whole movement of thought-self; not to see from within the loop of thought-self, which is intellect/conceptualization.

Right dude. This just recently hit me like a sack of humongous potatoes lol 

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

I'm not talking about outward chronological time, of the clock, of the calendar.  

I'm talking about inner psychological time, that recollects the past, and projects the future.   There is no distinction between this psychological time and the "perceiver" of it.  They are a single, unitary movement.

I feel ya. It’s so obvious, once it sinks in. 

[Jack River]

You have to seriously go into this with NO PRE-assumptions. Which for me meant getting a grasp on fear and its relation to time. 

[Jack River]

@SOUL

Cant understand what @robdl and @Facelessare saying if we are to scared to listen to them. Fear prevents it for sure. Not saying you are scared. But from what I see a lot here on the forum and the last 8years of my life, fear seems to prevent this big insight from sinking in. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jack River

[robdl]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

You have to seriously go into this with NO PRE-assumptions. Which for me meant getting a grasp on fear and its relation to time. 

As the pre-assumptions serve as a conditioning lens through which we observe, except this lens distorts/corrupts.  It is the lens of "I", pre-assumptions, or experience/knowledge/memory.  All the same thing.

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, robdl said:

As the pre-assumptions serve as a conditioning lens through which we observe, except this lens distorts/corrupts.  It is the lens of "I", pre-assumptions, or experience/knowledge/memory.  All the same thing.

Right dude. Attachment to accumulation Of the me. Psychological becoming 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Without going into fear and being able to connect all supposed separate parts of thought I would still be fighting myself. Yes a game changer for sure. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jack River

[robdl]

30 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@SOUL

Cant understand what @robdl and @Facelessare saying if we are to scared to listen to them. Fear prevents it for sure. Not saying you are scared. But from what I see a lot here on the forum and the last 8years of my life, fear seems to prevent this big insight from sinking in. 

Fear and its many subtle forms --- belief, assumptions, conclusions, knowledge, concepts-abstractions, etc.  All thought-self posing resistance, self-sustaining.